SpaceLogic C-Bus Commission does not work on ARM architecture processors

Discussion in 'C-Bus Toolkit and C-Gate Software' started by DarylMc, Apr 25, 2025.

  1. DarylMc

    DarylMc

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    SpaceLogic C-Bus Commission 2.8.0 and 2.9.0 do not work on M1 Mac Arm platform VM


    Screenshot 2025-04-26 at 6.40.39 am.jpg .
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2025
    DarylMc, Apr 25, 2025
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  2. DarylMc

    ashleigh Moderator

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    It's going to be much the same for every commissioning software out there, and making it work is a non-trivial thing.

    For most developers, (at present) dealing with this niche is a non-urgent problem.
     
    ashleigh, Apr 27, 2025
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  3. DarylMc

    snuffles

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    Yes, that will be an issue for any Windows Native Applications that have not been specifically compiled and debugged, for Arm - While there is a version of the JDK available from Microsoft that should work with C-Gate-3 as 2.9.0 SLCC has updated to an Open JDK 11 environment. This only solves part of the problem, in that C-Gate may run just fine (suggest, May not a guarantee), however, the SLCC and Toolkit, as well as other software like PICED and Schedule Plus, would undoubtedly still have issues.

    Should be a warning from Microsoft / PC vendor when purchasing a new Windows OS PC with ARM, as they are not compatible with many applications.
     
    snuffles, Apr 27, 2025
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  4. DarylMc

    oracle

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    Had similar issues with new surface with arm and compatibility with software, Windows must emulate some stuff as o had only few apps that failed. Never tried any commission software on these devices yet. Still just use cheap laptops for most onsite work they for one get abused by staff and aren't desirable for people to steal.
     
    oracle, Apr 27, 2025
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  5. DarylMc

    DarylMc

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    Thanks Ashleigh
    I can't see a case where an installer would not want to use VM's these days to manage various incompatible C-Gate versions.
    All the Toolkit commissioning software works with Parallels on M1 Mac so I hoped the Spacelogic software would.
     
    DarylMc, Apr 28, 2025
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  6. DarylMc

    DarylMc

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    Thanks snuffles.
    I created the post mostly for information.
    The machine is M1 Macbook Pro running Parallels.
    C-Gate 2, C-Gate 3 and C-Bus Toolkit work.
    USB drivers for the PC interface are available.
    I haven't tried Piced or Schedule Plus lately but so far only Space Logic commission installer is showing as not compatible.
     
    DarylMc, Apr 28, 2025
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  7. DarylMc

    snuffles

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    Hi its good to know that the older tools are working,
    Can I ask for C-Gate 2 and C-Gate 3 what Java JDK are you running?
     
    snuffles, Apr 30, 2025
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  8. DarylMc

    DarylMc

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    It was about 6 months ago but I think this is correct.
    On M1 MacBookPro running Windows 11 with Parallels I let both CGate2 and CGate3 CBus Toolkit versions install Java.
    Because of incompatibilities I was uninstalling CGate and Toolkit versions to swap but now I set them up as isolated VM's.
    The only issue I had was the silab drivers for the USB PCI had to be changed to an arm version.

    I also had CGate3 running on raspberry pi4 with jdk-8u202-linux-arm64-vfp-hflt.tar.gz from Oracle
     
    DarylMc, Apr 30, 2025
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  9. DarylMc

    ashleigh Moderator

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    My understanding is that Windows on ARM will run X86 / X64 programs using some kind of emulation. Where this gets rather messy is things like cross-platform / language interfaces (eg crossing the X86 / X64 barrier, which is occasionally needed) for out-of-process operation, and some weird devices drivers. This is where developer time gets burned up, and to properly solve these problems, devs need to buy a suitable ARM machine + the VM software + Windows license.

    This is why it's a kind of niche thing, at least at present - there's a lot of cost for new equipment for developers + their time needs to be justified. At present, it's a hard call.

    If someone like Dell or ASUS come out with low cost ARM laptops, with a significant price advantage, then the balance is likely to tip to dev's needing to put some serious effort in, or even making a separate compilation of a native ARM binary. We're not at that point, yet.

    (Disclaimer: This is the thinking going on for other systems, and I'm sure =S= will be having similar conversations and have similar thought processes. In the end it's about money and allocation of scares developer hours.)
     
    ashleigh, Apr 30, 2025
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  10. DarylMc

    Colin Moderator

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    The issue is that a lot of the new High end Windows Copilot PC from Lenovo Microsoft and other big brands and are based on the new Snapdragon X and ARM NPU chipsets, I think this is because surprisingly Intel and AMD have been a little late to the game on the Local NPU advancement, they are on the board now, but first to market was the ARM based solutions. these are marketed as the best most powerful solution for today, and Microsoft failed to mention that there may some issues with the ARM and existing Applications, Drivers etc.
    https://www.techradar.com/computing...driver-issues-plus-game-and-app-compatibility

    There has been a small number of reports of issues with SLCC and C-Gate, with Window's Copilot PC's these being the ones with ARM CPU, so I am little surprised to read in this post that Daryl MC has had some success at running C-Gate and toolkit all be it using a VM

    However it likely that steps were taken in SLCC 2.8.0 or later to detect at install if it was ARM or X86, X64 and simply say its not supported. This was because of the cases reported where install was not blocked but the solution would not work. Again on Windows Copilot PC's with ARM.

    SLCC 2.9.0 and Toolkit 1.18.0 come with a version of C-Gate that is now running on OpenJDK 11 Microsoft have specific builds of OpenJDK 11 also Including for the AArch64 / ARM64 Would be interesting to see how C-Gate 3 works with this?
    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/java/openjdk/download#openjdk-11

    Ashleigh is right also, it is hard for the developers to develop for the ARM support, as they have to have the physical hardware to test against and there is a hell of lot to test in order to be sure.

    I hope a few people see this thread, and can be warned of the ARM CPU use in windows as I also agree and can confirm =S= is discussing this and it is about money and allocation of scares developer hours, and reading some of the other post on this forum I think all would agree =S= already has a lot of work on there hands with SLCC software, which has a long way to go to be replacing toolkit and making things better for C-Bus and the new generation of product coming out. SO the ARM thing is really a pain that would be great to avoid. Again thanks Microsoft :)
     
    Colin, Apr 30, 2025
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  11. DarylMc

    Memphix

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    A little off topic here... but trying to use a remote PC (that I know is outdated) can no longer keep up with the latest software. Yes, its running Windows 7. But it can run all other latest C-Bus software except SLCC :rolleyes:
     
    Memphix, May 14, 2025 at 6:10 AM
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  12. DarylMc

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Windows 7 :)

    Yes it's the best windows release ever.... but unfortunately these days the security and ability to withstand the nasty guys won't be all that good.

    You really should upgrade it if you can.
     
    ashleigh, May 14, 2025 at 11:33 AM
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