eDLT applications

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by Burton Electrical, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Hi everyone,

    I'm not a c-bus regular, just a novice who dabbles from time to time so hope this isn't a silly basic programming question but why cant I see the preloaded application "Air-conditioning" in either the primary or secondary applications drop down boxes in any eDLTs??
    I can see it in older DLTs and other older key input units but not e DLTs.
    Is it simply not available in these? or am I doing something wrong?
    I can see HVAC Actuator 1 and 2 but these are available in all the older units too.

    It will probably help if I try and explain as briefly as possible what I am trying to achieve!

    I am simply trying to remotely turn ON/OFF a c-bus thermostat (4 zone no relays) from an eDLT key input.
    I have seen in previous posts on forum it should be straight forward enough. Within the thermostat gui there is a tab 'c-bus' and default communication group 1 is selected and i have enabled messaging ticked box below.
    If i go to an older dlt or key input unit and select secondary application 'air-conditioning' and then simply create a key input on/off and address it communication group 1 then it will turn thermostat ON/OFF as required.
    I just want to do it from an eDLT though!
    Do i need to use trigger control or something?

    Any advice or help would be great

    Thanks
    Matt
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 13, 2020
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Oh, and if i tried using HVAC actuator 1 in the secondary application, this only has pre-defined distinct groups (ie: cool or heat activation etc.) which is not what Im after. I simply want to turn the thermostat ON/OFF remotely from an eDLT key input that is bedside, and then either turn the thermostat back off (or on) at the actual thermostat)
    As mentioned above i can do this fine with an older key input no problem using Airconditioning application and controlling 'communication group 1'
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 13, 2020
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Doesn't anyone know why "Air-conditioning" is not available in EDLT applications??

    Surely someone at Clipsal must know that visits these forums.
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 19, 2020
    #3
  4. Burton Electrical

    chromus

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Perth
    eDLT is better thought of as a touchscreen than a switch like ur used to.

    You will need to go thru the electronic manual for the eDLT in the cbus Toolkit software. They are very powerful but you need to approach things a little differently.
     
    chromus, Nov 20, 2020
    #4
  5. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Thanks Chromus
    I have looked right through the e-help manual for eDLT and it seems the only thing it can do in regard to a Cbus AC thermostat is temp display measurement using communication group.
    All I want to do is remotely turn the thermostat on/off from the eDLT.
    I dont understand why what would seem like a simple programming option seems to be so complex or difficult, when lesser key input units will do this no problem by simply setting secondary application to air conditioning and controlling communication group 1.
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 21, 2020
    #5
  6. Burton Electrical

    Pie Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Yeah, I don’t think you can achieve controlling a communication group from an edlt, as far as I know...

    I would look into using an enable group for the on/off function, if my memory serves me correctly the communication group controls an enable group to switch the thermostat on/off
    But I may be wrong as it’s been a while since iv looked at one of them...

    The other way would be to have some logic in the middle, triggered by dummy ga on the edlt then get the logic engine to send the communication group command.
     
    Pie Boy, Nov 21, 2020
    #6
  7. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Thanks Pie Boy

    I will have a play around with enable and logic see what I can achieve. Will report back if successful.
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 21, 2020
    #7
  8. Burton Electrical

    chromus

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Perth
    If you have a logic unit you can set the A/C group to follow a dummy lighting group controlled by the eDLT if all else fails.
     
    chromus, Nov 21, 2020
    #8
  9. Burton Electrical

    JasonY00

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Sydney
    You could also try a Scene widget in the eDLT with trigger control. The scene in the eDLT is set as blank and it just sets a trigger group. This could then trigger the On/Off of remote scenes in a logic unit on the network. This may or may not be easier that enable control, but with the control of the thermostat defined centrally, all network devices can just trigger the remote scene instead of it being defined locally in each switch/dlt.
     
    JasonY00, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:42 AM
    #9
  10. Burton Electrical

    chromus

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Perth
    Expanding on Jason’s idea, you can use the Scene rotation to have effectively a Off/Low/../../Medium/../../High on the same switch
     
    chromus, Nov 24, 2020 at 10:22 AM
    #10
  11. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Thankyou for all your responses.
    Presently i do not have a Logic unit on the network.
    I have tried playing around with enable but am yet to achieve the result this way.
    Is it possible Jason to do the trigger of remote scenes without logic?
    I tried seeing if you can create a scene in the secondary application "air-conditioning" on a remote key input (2 gang saturn) and add communication group 1 to it, then try triggering it remotely from eDLT but it appears scenes can only be created in the lighting application.
    Can it be done just simply using blocks somehow in key input unit? or do i need a logic unit?

    Thanks
    Matt
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:08 PM
    #11
  12. Burton Electrical

    Pie Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    New Zealand
    on further inspection the enable group is just for a setback enable/disable, i dont believe it can do on and off,

    The problem with using trigger control from the Edlt is you can only use the scene widget to do trigger control which is limited when it comes to using trigger control for on and off
    you can only create a empty scene and assign a trigger group and action selector to one scene,
    potentially you could create 2 dummy scenes one with the on action selector and one with the off action selector, this would take up 2 buttons and provide no feedback, and put the scenes (Controlling the on and off communication group) in another input unit with the associated trigger groups assigned etc

    Just out of interest, if you set your edlt to lighting application and go to the group address drop down box, do any of the Communication control group address/s show ip in there, it dose for me...?
     
    Pie Boy, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:30 PM
    #12
  13. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Hi Pie boy,

    Yes i do see them the communication group 1 individual group addresses in lighting application (ie: heat activation, cool activation and so on) they are all there. I tried doing it this way but what happened was if i pushed the key input on eDLT it would turn off the thermostat, but after a short delay the thermostat would turn back on again automatically.

    If I put just "Communication Group 1" in a different key input under air-conditioning application it works fine.

    Thanks
    Matt
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:52 PM
    #13
  14. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    p.s. - this way i had heat activation set in control groups, it didnt matter if i used cool activation, or heat/cool activation.
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:55 PM
    #14
  15. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    Also out of interest, these individual communication groups are available in HVAC Actuator 1 application which is available in an eDLT. I tried using this way too but same result. Its like the thermostat overides and turns back on.

    I also tried putting all of those individual (CG1) groups into a scene in lighting application but this didnt work either.
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 24, 2020 at 9:07 PM
    #15
  16. Burton Electrical

    Burton Electrical

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melrose Park
    If only "Air-conditioning" was available as a secondary application in an eDLT then it would be simple! :(
     
    Burton Electrical, Nov 24, 2020 at 9:09 PM
    #16
  17. Burton Electrical

    JasonY00

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Sydney
    I have been looking at the PICED type devices such as various touch screens, PAC, Wiser. Which ones actually support the "Air Conditioning" application?

    I don't see any straight out that do. Am I missing something?

    Perhaps a list of which C-Bus devices support this application may give us a starting point.

    So far, the obsolete C-Bus thermostat and old DLT are it. Can anyone think of more?

    Cheers

    Jason
     
    JasonY00, Nov 26, 2020 at 7:31 AM
    #17
  18. Burton Electrical

    bmerrick

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Sydney

    Hi Jason,

    From the PICED Help, checkout 'Unit Differences' for some good info on unit support of various functions (image attached).

    Cheers,

    Brad
     

    Attached Files:

    bmerrick, Nov 26, 2020 at 9:10 AM
    #18
  19. Burton Electrical

    JasonY00

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thanks Brad,

    although none of these seem to support the "Air Conditioning" application on address 172 as an application drop down. They only support HVAC Actuator 1 & 2 on 115 and 116 and the Heating(Legacy) Application. The standard DLT does support the Air Conditioning Application as a drop down option.

    It appears above that Matt tried HVAC 1 but it was being overridden.

    Ashley may have sorted the problem for you here in this thread via system I/O but you will need a c-bus device that supports System I/O such a touch screen etc.:

    https://www.cbusforums.com/threads/access-to-air-condition-application.8204/#post-46093

    You will also need to call this from the eDLT.

    Cheers

    Jason

    P.S. I know you don't currently have a logic unit, but if you do ultimately get hold of one, this thread does what Chromus suggested with AirCon Application shadowing the Lighting Application.

    https://www.cbusforums.com/threads/shadow-link-groups-across-applications.6030/#post-33840
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020 at 11:20 PM
    JasonY00, Nov 26, 2020 at 11:09 PM
    #19
    Burton Electrical likes this.
  20. Burton Electrical

    bmerrick

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Sydney
    OK, While you 'Pure' guys come up with a solution.


    So its Brad's bodge up after Friday beers time.............................................................

    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    No Logic Required - Obviously :p It's so so un-pretty......................


    1. Make the eDLT button On/Off a group called 'AC_Group_1_Activate'

    2. Spare relay element at the main board group 'AC_Group_1_Activate' interfaces directly to either a Bus Coupler or an Aux Module (C'Mon everyone's got one of those in their bottom drawers!!)

    3. Aux Module or Bus Coupler set to Air Conditioning App - Comms Group 1 etc as BellPress

    Voila


    Shake and Bake Guys - Have a good weekend.

    Brad
     
    bmerrick, Nov 27, 2020 at 7:20 AM
    #20
    Mr Mark and Burton Electrical like this.
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.