Beginners Help

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wiser 2 Controller' started by ryang, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. ryang

    ryang

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    Hi

    I could really use a little help with the concepts and architecture of C-Bus please.

    Basically, my parents own a house very remote which is extremely difficult to get people to come and work on systems. They installed C-bus about 10 years ago and recently upgraded to a Wiser 2 controllers (PSTN controller blew up).

    However, during the setup all there is 3 controls, and I would like to program the wiser to manage the whole house.

    What I am trying to do is pretty basic.

    There is alot of dimmers and relay controls about the house. The house was (atleast in my opinion over-lighted). Everything is super bright and a room may have 3 or 4 relays to the room. However, the light switches are all individual. Hence to turn a room on your need to press 4 buttons, none are labelled, and its a nightmare for anyone who doesnt know the house. I would like to build a wiser 2 setup and install an ipad to control the major function and rooms in the house.

    So, I have PICED installed, and I can see the widgets panel, but what I do not understand in the Groups in essence. How do i know what is connected to what relay, what groups exist, and then in the controls what group addresses are in the system, need created, and can be controlled.

    I 'think' i need to use C-gate? Which can't be accessed on the LAN? Do i need to plug in via Serial only?

    Basically I want to do the following

    Create a group for every room and control it. And I want to launch it at say 50% (assume i use a scene here).

    Turn on the spa and heater

    Turn off the entire house

    Turn on entire house (emergency)

    Turn on outside lights only

    Any basic help in where to start would be great. 9FYI been working in IT 20 years, so I am comfortable with tech, just need a bit of push in the right direction. Thanks
     
    ryang, Aug 15, 2017
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  2. ryang

    brodricj

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    This is the starting point. You need to know the relationships between all the input units and output units, and what electrical loads the output units are connected to. The CBUS installer should have left notes on how the system is wired up. If not, one way to discover how it's all wired up to use the CBUS diagnostic utility. You will then go around the house to each input unit, press each button one-by-one, note which load each button controls, and check the CBUS diagnostic log which will tell you the group address that was just polled.

    You will also need to the scan the network with CBUS toolkit which will identify every unit on the CBUS network. Wiser2 has a CNI built in to it which is the bridge between the local network with your configuration computer, and the CBUS network.

    To make sense of the different units on the network, re-label each group (i.e. group 1, group 2 etc etc) with a logical name, e.g. change the name of "group 1" to "kitchen LT" or whatever function that group belongs to.

    It is helpful to have a proper understanding of the installation before proceeding with the Wiser2 configuration.
     
    brodricj, Aug 15, 2017
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  3. ryang

    ryang

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    Thanks

    The documentation is unfortunately non existent.

    I have turned on the bridge in wiser 2, but I think being offsite now the ports arent opened in the firewall.

    How Can i access the CBUS network via the Wiser 2. I.e Is there aplugin in the PICED software that does it?

    Can you download the CBUS network to a file for analysis?
     
    ryang, Aug 15, 2017
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  4. ryang

    brodricj

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    1. CBUS is very well documented.
    2. Wiser2 has a CNI built in to it that is the bridge between the local network (where your computer is connected to) and CBUS. In Toolkit set Wiser2 as your default CBUS interface.
    3. Once the Wiser2 has been set as your default interface, when you scan the CBUS network all the units on the network will be detected and displayed in the Toolkit GUI. The programming of each unit on the CBUS network will be captured in a database. You access the GUI of each device on the network for configuring via Toolkit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2017
    brodricj, Aug 15, 2017
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  5. ryang

    brodricj

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    I also mention, there are CBUS training videos on YouTube. Subscribe to their channel. That will be a great source of information for you.
     
    brodricj, Aug 15, 2017
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  6. ryang

    DarylMc

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    ryang
    In the past I found a dedicated PC on site was quite handy to manage a remote CBus home using microsoft remote desktop.
    As long as you have a decent internet connection.
    The little NUC devices look like they might be good for that.

    I think you should at least consider paying someone to get you started.
    People do 3 day training courses just for the basics.
    Someone with a bit of experience on Wiser is going to really help get the most from it too.
    Since the home is 10 years old I think it would also be a good idea for someone with some CBus experience to evaluate options like LED lighting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2017
    DarylMc, Aug 15, 2017
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  7. ryang

    ryang

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    Thanks

    Thanks for all of the advise

    In Toolkit, the default interface being wiser 2 via the CNI - what is the default port for this? Is it port 80 like in the app setup?

    A dedicated PC would be a great idea. I was hoping that if you forwarded the correct ports that all config could be handled remotely though.

    The basics have been setup, you can log into the wiser 2 app and do 3 basic lighting controls. I'd just like to take this to the next level since the infrastructure is there. As for LED lighting, there are at least 100 halogens in the house. I cant see this being cost effective for whats essentially a weekend house atm.

    I am interested though, what needs to be installed to connect the HVAC into the cbus system?

    And I will look into the youtube videos - great tip, thanks!
     
    ryang, Aug 15, 2017
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  8. ryang

    brodricj

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    Do the initial configuration on-site. The Wiser2 default should be DHCP so it will get a local IP address on the network from the router. If the configuration computer is also set to DHCP (or given a static IP appropriate to the network schema) then use a web browser to open the Wiser2 GUI at its local IP. Using Toolkit set Wiser2 as the default CBUS interface. If the Wiser2 is also connected to the CBUS network, then Toolkit will find all the CBUS units via the CNI built into Wiser2 when you scan the default interface. You don't need to reconfigure any port numbers for this to work from the local side.

    If you want to access the CBUS remotely via the Wiser2, follow the port forwarding instructions described in the Wiser2 installation manual. Give Wiser2 a static IP (outside the DHCP range), and configure the port forwarding in the router so the WAN side connection will be redirected to the internal address of the Wiser2. Port 80 is the default web access port. You can change this to port 90 or 8080 or 9090 or whatever you want, but this shouldn't be necessary if the Wiser2 is the only device you need to access on the LAN side from the WAN side.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2017
    brodricj, Aug 15, 2017
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  9. ryang

    NickD Moderator

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    The Wiser2 should be perfectly adequate for what you want to do. You do however need to set it up, which involves forwarding some ports as well as setting the correct options in the Wiser2 project file that you set up in PICED, and possibly (I can't remember exactly how it works) enabling some options on the Wiser2 itself once you connect to it.

    The instructions to do this should be in the Wiser2 Installation Instructions, but you could probably also give Tech Support a call and they should be able to walk you through it.

    It does sound like you're going to need another trip to site though if you haven't already got this working, and if you can't get it going then leaving a PC running on site with RDP or Teamviewer or something might allow you to get it going remotely at your leisure. Once working though you should no longer need the PC.

    It depends on the system.

    If it's a split, there are systems like Airtopia that interface via Infrared that work well, offer a lot of control, and are relatively simple to use.

    If it's ducted, it depends on the brand of AC and what you want to do...

    In my case I have all the zone dampers on C-Bus relays, and have another relay switching a dry contact input on an add-on card in the indoor unit that just allows me to turn the system on and off (note this is NOT just switching the power to the unit, which is a BAD idea). I change the heat/cool setting and temperature setpoint manually twice a year (set it to heat/17C when it starts getting too cold and set it to cool/24C when it starts getting too hot).

    If you want to be able to control everything you will need a dedicated gateway from someone like Coolmaster, and then write some code to integrate this using the C-Bus Logic Engine and a serial or IP interface.

    Nick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2017
    NickD, Aug 16, 2017
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  10. ryang

    ryang

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    The Setup

    Thanks for the replies

    The Wiser 2 is actually setup and working with a basic config. I can connect into it, change settings etc. I have turned on Toolkit control and its all good.

    What I am not sure about now, is how do I connect from Toolkit via the wiser.

    I have created a project, added a network of type Wiser, pointed it to the Public IP on port 80. It says PCI failed to reset - Unable to open the network


    It doesnt ask for a username or password though, so i found that a little strange.

    What Do I do to get Toolkit working via the Wiser as a Gateway? Assuming I should be using Toolkit that is I guess?
     
    ryang, Aug 17, 2017
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  11. ryang

    ryang

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    I actually have it connecting now and downloading the setup. YAY. Thanks Guys

    There is no labels, everything is a mess, and it doesnt make alot of sense. But atleast I can connect to the system.

    If anyone has any good beginners guide or link or youtube videos. That be awesome.
     
    ryang, Aug 17, 2017
    #11
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