4 scenes from a bus coupler -- what am i missing?

Discussion in 'C-Bus Toolkit and C-Gate Software' started by curiouser, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. curiouser

    curiouser

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    i've got a 4-channel bus coupler hooked to 4 buttons, and would like to do what seems like it should be a standard thing -- use it to select among 4 scenes for the room. the scenes are stored on a wiser (one trigger group with 4 different action selectors).

    but when i go to program the key functions, i get stuck. i can set application to trigger control and set all the keys to the same group, but then i only get 2 action selectors (trigger 1 and trigger 2). experimenting a little and looking at the logs it looks like the "off" function sends action selector 15 (?), so i suppose i could use that for a third key, but then i'm stuck ("on" also seems to send action selector 15).

    alternatively i could use different trigger groups for each scene, but then the bus coupler seems to assume that e.g. if i push key 1, followed by key 2, followed by key 1 (where key 1 and key 2 are in separate groups), it doesn't need to send the second key 1 (since as far as it can tell the scene is still set -- i guess that's why you're not supposed to have the same light in more than one trigger group?).

    at this point the only option i can think of involves funky logic in the wiser or maybe scenes triggering other scenes, but... is it really this hard? this seems like such a basic thing to want to do with a 4-button input.
     
    curiouser, Jan 24, 2011
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  2. curiouser

    Newman

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    The proper way to remotely trigger scenes from a Bus Coupler is to configure each key as a Scene key.

    If your Bus Coupler was made within the last few years it will have a unit type of BCN4B. Select <Scene> in the key Function drop-down box. Click on the button that magically appears to the right of the Function drop-down box to open the 'Define a Scene Key' dialogue. From here you can choose your Trigger Group and Action Selector. For the Scene, just leave it set to an empty Scene. When the button is pressed, the unit will transmit the Scene Trigger into the network.

    If your unit is a bit older, and has unit type KEYBC4, then it's a little more complicated, and you need to continue down the path you're already going. In this case you need to set the Primary Application to Trigger Control. You need to configure one key as an On Function, another as an Off function and the remaining two keys as Trigger 1 and Trigger 2. The On Function corresponds to Action Selector 255, the Off Function corresponds with Action Selector 0 and you can choose freely which Action Selectors to use for Trigger 1 and Trigger 2.
     
    Newman, Jan 24, 2011
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  3. curiouser

    curiouser

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    this is a KEYBC4, and your instructions *almost* work...

    the off, trigger 1, and trigger 2 buttons do just what i'd hoped. the 'on' button doesn't quite -- if i'm in the "off" scene it does the right thing, but from either of the other scenes it does nothing (i.e. i have to switch everything off before i can switch into the "on" scene).

    any suggestions?

    p.s. i'm still seeing the on and off buttons logged as
    Event= Action Selector triggered : 15
    unlike the trigger1 / trigger 2 buttons, which show up as e.g.
    Event= Action Selector triggered : 1, 'Low'
    maybe because 15 is the unit number? kinda confusing
     
    curiouser, Jan 24, 2011
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  4. curiouser

    Newman

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    Yes, that is a limitation of that approach. If you use the method above you will not get the scene for the On key if the last thing you did was either the Trigger 1 or Trigger 2 scene. This is because, the key event is 'On', but the Action Selectors you're using for Trigger 1 and Trigger 2 are non-zero, so the Bus Coupler thinks that the Group Address is On already (Remember that we are effectively faking the behaviour of units with native Scene support here).

    Is there a reason you have all 4 scenes on the same Trigger Group? If you configure your Scenes to be triggered on two different Trigger Groups, then you'll be able to use the Trigger 1 & 2 on each of those Groups.

    What you're seeing in the log is probably due to either Trigger Groups or Action Selectors being mis-named in your database. I suggest you check what names are assigned to what Action Selectors there.
     
    Newman, Jan 24, 2011
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  5. curiouser

    curiouser

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    That's a gentle way of putting it. Most people would consider the button not doing what it's supposed to do a bug...

    I tried that, but it makes the problem even worse: if e.g. key 1 and 2 in group A, and key 3 and 4 are in group B, then pressing key 1, key 3, and key 1 again ignores the second key 1.
     
    curiouser, Jan 24, 2011
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  6. curiouser

    Newman

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    The ability to remotely trigger a Scene stored in another product was only introduced into C-Bus after the particular Bus Coupler you have was designed, so making it remotely trigger Scenes is actually making it do something it was not designed to do originally.

    That is only true if you configure the keys to use On or Off key commands. If you configure the key to use Trigger 1 and Trigger 2 (as I stated in my previous post) then the unit will transmit the Trigger into the network, regardless of what was pressed previously.
     
    Newman, Jan 24, 2011
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  7. curiouser

    mattyb

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    I'm not sure if this will work in the context of your project, but it's a workaround...

    If the scenes are stored in a Wiser you can use the Lighting Application for scene the trigger groups and set the trigger group for each scene to a different lighting Group Address (that triggers the scene when On).

    Each input of the bus coupler is then configured to turn On a separate lighting group (scene trigger). I'd then also set the scene trigger group to Off within the scene to make sure the group doesn't get "stuck On".

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers

    Matt
     
    mattyb, Jan 24, 2011
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  8. curiouser

    Don

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    The way you are using the bus coupler to trigger scenes is okay, and from the sounds of it, you are happy with the way OFF and two recalled levels work as scene triggers. So far so good.
    The way that a basic 'on' key microfunction works is not 100% compatible with the approach you're using, since 'on' does nothing if the level of the group was previously anything other than OFF.

    You can make it work by forcing a very quick transition to OFF with the same button-press as the ON. This can be done by setting up the key in the advanced tab of Toolkit to the following:
    Just pressed: OffKey
    Short Release: Onkey
    Long Press: Onkey
    Long Release: Idle

    (Long Press response ensures that you always get the Onkey even if the button is held)

    The only downside to this is that the unit will issue two triggers in rapid succession (Off, followed by On). If the scenes are stored in a key unit (Neo, Saturn, etc.) or a Multisensor, this should work just fine, although the scene transition won't be that smooth unless you use ramps in the scene.
    I suspect scenes stored in a wiser will also be ok, but I haven't tested that.
     
    Don, Jan 25, 2011
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  9. curiouser

    curiouser

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    that did it! thanks.
     
    curiouser, Jan 25, 2011
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