Wiser time change (not NTP sync)

OK, seems like I've pretty much traced the root cause of what has been an extremely frustrating issue to the incorrect time in the Wiser unit following the DST change last week. - basically, CBUS is connected to my Comfort HA/Security panel via a CBUS-UCM. The first thing I noticed was that after the DST change the other weekend, all my sunset/sunrise events were off by an hour, - as if Comfort hadn't corrected its time offset when it should have done, and this indeed appeared to be the case, so I spent a good few days trying to figure out firstly why my Comfort panel didn't adjust its time, but more frustratingly trying fruitlessly to adjust it manually... What was happening was that every time I manually set the Comfort RTC to the correct time, within seconds it would revert back to the original time.. - that caused a fair bit of head scratching I can tell you.. (not to mention some fairly fruity language)...

It seems that what is hapenning is that the CBUS is re-setting the comfort RTC via the UCM. - Every time I set the correct time directly in comfort, CBUS then promtly synchronises clocks with Comfort, and overwrites it with the time that CBUS thinks is is, - which can only come from the wiser since that's the only CBUS unit on the network that keeps time.. - I've checked in the Wiser UI, and sure enough I can plainly see the time accoriding to Wiser is one hour out.

So I repeat the same questions that I levelled (unfairly) at comfort: - WHY has Wiser not updated its RTC at the DST change? - I have enabled the "sync time from the internet" option in the project that it's running, so why is it not automatically adjusting for DST?

Secondly, how then can I manually override the time setting? - I took a quick poke around the Wiser router UI before I had to leave for work this morning, and whilst I can see the date/time, I can't seem to find anywhere/any way that I can manually reset it....

TIA

Paul G.

 

Oh FFS!!!

This is unbelievably frustrating, and frankly, just NOT GOOD ENOUGH

I've just spent the last 3 hours of my life, fighting with this stupid ****ing wiser unit to just do the simple bloody task of getting it to take the correct time... - and you want to know the ONLY thing that has apparently had the required effect (though it's possibly too soon after to declare it actually "fixed" yet)... - I had to basically LIE in the PICED project about my time zone... - I've now told it I'm in Central Europe which is an hour ahead of the UK, and this at least *appears* to have made the wiser UI show the right time for the UK..

I have in the last 3 hours:...

Downloaded & installed the latest Toolkit, CGATE, and PICED applications,
Upgraded the Wiser firmware to the latest available image in the aforementioned PICED. (Kona_1.17.0 )
In the wiser UI, signed in & accessed the settings options, then the CBUS date/time option, to get to the "spinny wheel" date/time adjustment... Tried adjusting the hour, then clicking the "set" button which turned green when I made the aforementioned change, and saw the time change to the correct time... - for about 2 whole seconds, before it changed right back again... Then I noticed the "Enable Daylight" tickbox underneath, which was clear, so I ticked it, and again I saw the hour advance to the correct time... and again 2 seconds later I saw it go straight back again as it was before... *NOTHING* I could do in the Wiser UI would make it take the correct time... I reset the unit and saw it start up with the default date/time settings of 1-1-2008 00:00 - and after a few seconds I saw it obtain its time from the NTP time source presumably, since that was still enabled at this point...

So, since it was clearly getting the "wrong" time from the NTP source, (in that it was most definately not applying the DST offset), I decided that I'd disable that particular "feature"... - So I disabled it in the PICED project, uploaded it, and reset the unit... again I saw it start up with the default date/time of 1-1-2008 etc... but then after a few seconds I saw it STILL obtain time from somewhere!!! - what gives?? - I'd disabled NTP sync at this point... - furthermore, the time that it obtained was even more wrong than before, - as it was about 1 hour & 20 minutes behind... Again, if I made any adjustments in the Wiser UI, they reverted straight back about 2 seconds later.
In the "status" page on the router, the Time source setting had changed from:
"Time Source NTP Master at 07/04/2010 20:01:12" - which is what it was previously when NTP sync was enabled in the project, but now that I'd disabled that, instead of having NO time source configured, it instead said:
"Time Source Slave at 07/04/2010 20:01:12 "
Now, - that's a slave to what exactly?? - where the **** is it acquiring its time from when I'd explicitly and distinctly DISABLED the NTP sync option??? - What _exactly_ is the point of showing me that option in the software, if the poxy thing doesn't actually obey it???

So, in essence, regardless of whether I enabled or disabled the NTP sync option, the bloody thing acquired time from some external source regardless, and then absolutely would not allow that to be overridden locally... - if the external time source was incorrect (which it is), then tough-titty... there appears to be absolutely no way I can discern to get this chunk of ***** set to the correct time configuration... Following the above, I re-enabled NTP sync, since this at least appeared to be less wrong than the alternative, and it then occurred to me that I might be able to fool it to the right local time by fibbing about my timezone, which is what I have done.. i.e. in the PICED project, I've set the timezone to GMT+1 - Oh, and yes, just in case you were wondering, the DST settings ARE correct in the project too... - the start & end dates are correct, and the option is set to "add 1 hour", - but it most clearly is NOT doing so, hence I've had to "bodge it" by fannying about with my timezone setting.

Chaps, frankly this is bo***ocks, this is an expensive piece of equipment, which is supposed to be trusted to run fairly vital aspects of my home... yet it has such simple, obvious, and frankly amateur bugs in the software that my ?1.99 digital watch from the petrol station does a better job at the childishly simple task of just keeping the right time... - Can I please have a job with the programming team responsible for this, 'cos frankly, I think I might just be able to do a better job in the quality control department (does one even exist? - or are WE the beta-testers for this??)...

Sigh....

Paul G.

 

Another thought....

Actually, it just ocurred to me that the "slave" setting mentioned in the Wiser when I disabled NTP would be slave to the existing time on the CBUS network??...

However, - I thought only specific CBUS units maintaned time on the network, - these being any of the touchscreens, the PAC, and perhaps the DLT's... - thing is, I don't currently have *ANY* of these types of units connected to my CBUS network... - currently all I have (apart form the Wiser) are various output units: relay & dimmer modules, some Neo's & Saturn switches, a bus coupler or two, an old E2000 switch and lastly the CBUS-UCM linking it to Comfort... - as far as I'm aware, none of these units would be a time server for CBUS would it?...

And even if I'm wrong about that, and lets say the UCM was a time server, - SURELY the Wiser should "trump" that as a master timekeeper on the network?? - and SURELY manually setting the time on a suitable unit should re-set the time for the whole network?

Either way, the whole mechanism isn't working, and there's just no way I should end up with such a monumental rage against the machine to do something that I shouldn't even have had to attempt in the first place if the DST change had workled as it was supposed to....

Paul G.

 

Yes, when NTP is disabled in Wiser, Wiser then acquires its date/time from the CNI. It will then slave to the date/time on the CNI. The CNI implements the C-Bus Time protocol which means it will slave to the master time source on C-Bus. If there are no master time sources on C-Bus, then the CNI uses its own time as it has a real time clock.

Yes, the CNI would be the time server.

The Wiser would trump other time sources only if it had NTP enabled, otherwise it is a slave like everything else. If everything is a slave and then you set time using the Wiser UI, it will then set the time on the C-Bus network and then return to being a slave. The time that it set will stay only if no other source on the C-Bus network overwrites it.

 

The method you described above is the correct way to set daylight savings. When you click enable daylight savings, what that does is it tells the Wiser that you want it to use daylight savings and so it will set daylight savings as active on C-Bus. If the Wiser has ntp enabled, then it will add the hour offset to the ntp time source (GMT) + local time zone. Note, that the time shown on the UI clock is the time to look at. If it does not have ntp enabled, then it will just take the current time on C-Bus and add the offset and then transmit that on to C-Bus. When you reset the unit, the Wiser will acquire time from C-Bus to determine the state of daylight savings, and then acquire time from the NTP source and then apply the daylight savings state to that. I'm not sure what happened in your observation to cause that to malfunction.

I'm sorry that the Wiser did not behave the way you expected. You're not a beta tester, you're a paying customer and you deserve a product that works correctly in all cases. We think that's what we've delivered, but your observation indicates there is an issue. We'll have to identify what's going on and reproduce it so that it can be rectified. I'm sorry again, I appreciate your patience, we'll find out what happened.

 

Wiser time revisited.

Hi guys, - sorry, I've been away from this for quite a long time (no pun intended)... - since the "workaround" I described of lying about my timezone in the project file has had the desired effect, the urgency to get to the bottom of the cause has diminished somewhat...

Obviously this "solution" requires that I manually revert that timezone setting in October when the hour comes back off again, but at least I *know* what the required actions are, and what the outcome will be, and at least it's a fairly quick & easy process that I'd only have to do twice a year...

That said, I'd like to think that a "proper" fix will be made available before October via updated firmware...

So, I stand ready to assist by way of providing more observational evidence, logfiles, etc. etc. - you can even have a Webex into my management PC youself if you like, so you can see exactly what I see.... Let me know what you need first, & I'll try to get it done this weekend....

TIA

Paul G.

 

Hi Paul,

Just to give you an update on the issue, several of us were able to reproduce this issue using the Minder Pro panel. It turns out that the MinderPro panel has specific non-compliances with the C-Bus Time protocol which is the root cause of the issue. I believe communication is in progress with the Minder Pro manufacturer to get them to resolve it.

Regards,
jaya

 

Non compliance to the C-Bus protocols seems to be becoming a bit of a problem. I recently had an issue with the C-Bus time regularly jumping back 20mins. After much head scratching I finally discovered my Ness M1 with the V3 C-bus interface broadcasts the time every 5 hours, but does not listen to C-Bus time updates. Thus if you set the time on any C-Bus device, the M1 will clobber it with it's own time sometime within the next 5 hours. Ness don't seem to be very interested in fixing the problem. They say it's a fully C-Bus enabled product which makes me wonder how it passed certification. Fortunately I finally found a way of disabling the M1 time updates, but certainly something to look out for if you're using an M1

 

Hello!

I have the same problem. There is Wiser (fw Kona_1.24.0), system time in UI is incorrect (year 2008), local time is correct. In Wiser status the line "Time source - Slave at 10/05/2008" is present. "Use NTP sync" option is enabled, but the internet connection may be unavailable because of the firewall rules. There are no more time-keeping units on the network.

So the questions:
1. What the wiser is slave to? CNI's system time? How to correct it?
2. How to check whether the wiser gets synchronized with the NTP server?
3. Does the system time get transmitted through the network bridge to the far side network?

The main question is how to setup the right time in wiser to make time-scheduled scenarios available.

 

Does anybody know what to do?

 

Yes, if NTP is enabled, but Wiser is unable to connect to an NTP server, then it will rely on the CNI's clock. You can set the time on the CNI by using the Adobe Flash UI, scrolling to Tools, then click on System Utilities, C-Bus date and time.

For 2, at that Wiser status page, you will see whether it has synced with NTP. On mine,
http://192.168.100.120/clipsal/main.htm
Time Source NTP Master at 18/04/2012 13:13:40
If it lost sync, it will say:
Time Source Slave at 19/04/2012 19:55:55

For 3, if it has NTP sync, the Wiser will behave as the time master on C-Bus.

 

I am having the same issue as the original poster - did this ever get fixed?
UK daylight Saving not working.

My Firmware is: Kona_1.30.0
(although the "Router firmware" is only 1.0.28?)

I have set everything to UK daylight savings as described here...

My Wiser Status page says:
Current Time: Sun Apr 13 20:59:20 2014 (GMT -00:00) - should be 21:59

My Wiser page User Interface says:
Time Source NTP Master at 13/04/2014 20:00:08

If I access the Flash web front end and go to "C-Bus Date and Time" the "Enable Daylight" is not ticked.
If I tick it and press "Set" it only lasts for about 10 seconds and then unticks again...

What can be causing this?
It is very frustrating....

 

Anyone?

I have resorted to the "fudge the timezone" workaround
Surely this has been fixed in the last 4 years though??