Wireless Question

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wireless Hardware' started by trucker01, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. trucker01

    trucker01

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    I have just installed a single saturn 6 gang 1xdimmer wall plug. Works well. But I do have a question.

    Why do they assign 2 buttons per local load? I can understand having one per local load but I don't understand why you have to have 2 each.

    Basically this means that if you have 6 gang with 2 dimmers (2 local loads) you would lose 4 buttons (only 2 gang left).

    Am I missing anything here?


    Cheers
    Stewart
     
    trucker01, Jan 11, 2014
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  2. trucker01

    DarylMc

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    Hello Stewart

    Using 2 keys for one channel is relatively common in CBus and it enables you to do things which are hard to do with a single key.
    Personally I avoid it and use only single keys because it uses less buttons and I think it is more intuitive.

    I'm assuming you already have a wired CBus network, a CBus Wireless Gateway communicating with the Saturn and a PC running CBus Toolkit connected to the network.
    If you don't have all this, then disregard everything below.

    Have a look at the key functions in the attached picture.
    I've never used Wireless CBus but I'm pretty sure this will give you toggle dimmer function as per the wired units on 2 keys for the 2 dimmer channels and 4 CBus key inputs for the other buttons.
     

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    DarylMc, Jan 11, 2014
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  3. trucker01

    trucker01

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    No wired yet. I literally have one saturn wall switch wireless and one plug unit. I am doing wireless on my ground floor and wired on top floor (eventually).
     
    trucker01, Jan 11, 2014
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  4. trucker01

    DarylMc

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    Hi Stewart
    In your case I would wait for someone to step in and verify that what I told you does work.
    Good planning is important with CBus and I strongly suggest that you keep asking questions if you are not sure.
     
    DarylMc, Jan 11, 2014
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  5. trucker01

    Ashley W

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    You can program the buttons to do what ever you want, provided you can communicate with the switch.

    The core issue for you is you are using the default configuration in a standalone topology. Once you get a wireless gateway in and a PC interface of some sort you can then communicate with the switch and change it to do what ever you like, including changing the loads to single button control, or allow them to be controlled from other switches, including on your planned wired network.
     
    Ashley W, Jan 11, 2014
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  6. trucker01

    trucker01

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    The manual implies that "Local Control Buttons" cannot be changed from the local functionality. Has anyone reprogrammed the local control buttons successfully?
     
    trucker01, Jan 11, 2014
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  7. trucker01

    Ashley

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    Ashley W is correct. Using toolkit you can program the buttons to do anything you like just like a wired switch. The default behavior is just the factory default.
    In fact wireless buttons have additional functionality over wired switches like double click and key-sets (which allow you to have 2 sets of commands per switch). You can reprogram the buttons using learn mode but since you will eventually be getting a wired network you would be much better off investing in a wireless gateway, power supply (or dimmer/relay with PS), and PCI interface (or better still a Wiser) up front so you can use toolkit.

    While I don't wish to knock CBus wireless (I've used a fair bit of it!), it is still wireless after all and suffers from all the usual wireless issues. I've found from experience its worth the effort knocking a few holes in plaster to get CBus cable through wherever is possible.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2014
    Ashley, Jan 11, 2014
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  8. trucker01

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Local Control Buttons is the term used in wireless for buttons on the unit that control the attached local load.

    Remember in C-Bus (wired) that there are input units with buttons, and output units that control loads. And you then make relationships between them.

    Out of the box, C-Bus wired won't do anything at all. You have to use learn, or C-Bus Toolkit to program the relationships.

    Wireless, on the other hand, is a combo unit, as each unit has both buttons AND a local load.

    One of the design goals for Wireless was that it needs to "just work" out of the box, as well as support learn, as well as be completely programmable using Toolkit.

    For a long complex range of reasons, it was decided that the wireless key-unit side of things would have buttons operating in pairs, when taken out of the box. (One reason being that it makes the process of getting into Learn a fairly straightforward piece of s/w engineering, as well as something a user would not normally ever do. For example, leaning on a SINGLE button for a long time to enter learn would lead to accidental entry to learn because people lean on buttons for long periods, even when it makes no sense to do so. As an aside, Wireless also had a constraint that it had to operate in the existing mechanical platforms of Saturn and Neo, which meant that adding a separate "Learn" button under the fascia was not possible because there was no space for this in the existing mechanical designs, so that option was considered but ruled out.)

    So, out of the box, there are some simple rules: The top button pair controls Load #1, the second button pair (down) controls load #2, and so on. Further, the loads are controlled as OFF (left) + ON (right) for relays, or OFF/DOWN (left) + ON/UP (right) for dimmers.

    Simple rules use lots of buttons but make for simple rules. And simple rules are good because they are easily understood.

    If you don't like this arrangement then a gateway + PCI + C-Bus toolkit allows you to change it to whatever you want*.

    "Whatever you want" means you can have NO local load control at all, or you can do it all on button 6 as a Toggle Bouncy Down Cycle Dimmer if you wish, or control the local load on the double click (shame on anyone for ever doing such a thing though).

    ------------

    *Nitpickers corner: "Whatever you want" means whatever operations are supported by the unit when commissioned using C-Bus Toolkit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2014
    ashleigh, Jan 12, 2014
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  9. trucker01

    trucker01

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    Cheers. Ill wait until I get the wired gear and see what i can do.
     
    trucker01, Jan 14, 2014
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