Wireless Groups missing

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wireless Hardware' started by mormj001, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. mormj001

    mormj001

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    I am fairly new to all of this, I have a few problems with adding and communicating wireless units to a wired network.

    2 wireless units were in operation for a few months but recently 4 new wireless units were added plus a wired network. The wired side is working fine but there are a few problems with the wireless side. Everything was setup in learn mode and it is only now I am programming through toolkit.

    1. I can find the new wireless units (and groups) on the network through the gateway but no group addresses have been created for 2 of the original units that were installed many months ago. Can I add these manually somehow?

    2. Additionaly, of all the wireless units that have been found successfully, the group addresses do not appear on the other network and so I can't run scenes across the two networks. I have "send to adjacent network" box ticked on both sides, what else do I need to do so that the group addresses appear on the other network?

    Any help will be much appreciated
    Mick
     
    mormj001, Sep 9, 2010
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  2. mormj001

    daniel C-Busser Moderator

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    Hi Mick,

    For the gateway to "connect" group addresses they need to be defined in both networks, under the same application. The descriptions don't have to match, it is the address that's important.

    In Toolkit, once you have scanned a network you should be able to select and edit each of the units. In the corresponding unit dialog you can create and apply group addresses to the keys or channels.

    Once the same group addresses (on the same applications) are used on units in both networks, the gateway will connect them in the manner you expect.
     
    daniel, Sep 10, 2010
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  3. mormj001

    NickD Moderator

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    If you're using your previously separate wired and wireless networks now as one big network, it might be worth reassigning group addresses, at least in the wireless side, as it's quite possible that you have duplicates.

    What I would do..

    1) create all the group addresses you need for the whole system (ie wired + wireless) in the wired side, and assign meaningful tags.

    2) use the "copy tags" function in toolkit to copy the tags from the wired side to the wireless side.

    3) go to the wireless network in toolkit and reassign the groups in the units so they do what you want

    4) make sure your wireless gateway is set to connect applications (in both directions) ad make sure the "send to adjacent network" option is ticked.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Sep 10, 2010
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  4. mormj001

    mormj001

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    Thanks guys, I have only just got out onsite to try these suggestions and I am still having a few problems.

    The copy tags function managed to bring in the wired and wireless groups I was after into each network but I also found that some groups went missing afterwards. By checking the group addresses, I found that there were matching address numbers on the wired and wireless network. How do I change these? Every time I try to unravel, it tells me it doesn't need unravelling.

    The c-touch screen is managing to communicate with groups on the wired and wireless side so the ones not in conflict are working ok.

    I tried the readdress option and rescanned etc but the group numbers didn't change. The addreses changed for the units but I need to change the addresses for the group at the lowest level. What am I missing here? How do I change the group address so that they are all unique across both networks.

    An example of what is happening is when group address 009 (wired side/Bed light) is turned on, the group address 009 (on the wireless side/Exhaust fan) turns on. These should be defined as different addresses shouldn't they?

    On top of this, I still have the problem of 4 wireless channels/groups not being able to be found for whatever reason but it could all be related I assume. I can find the 2 wireless switches in toolkit but there are no groups found for either of them.

    I have a few more weeks to find a solution before going back to resolve these issues.
     
    mormj001, Sep 18, 2010
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  5. mormj001

    Newman

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    The unravel function is only for the unit addresses, not the group addresses. It ensures that each physical unit is at a unique address, enabling you to program it.

    By default, the buttons on a Wireless unit will control the local load, i.e. the dimmer or relay in that unit, without requiring a Group Address to be assigned. This is fine if that's all you want to do, but as soon as you want to control that dimmer/relay from somewhere else you need to assign a Group Address.

    To create new Group Addresses in Toolkit, open the programming window for the unit you want to re-program. Go to the key you want to re-program with a new Group Address. Click the green '+' icon near the right hand end of the Group Address drop-down box. In the Add Group box that appears, type in the name of the new Group Address you want to create. When you click OK to this dialogue box your new group address will be assigned to that key and added to the list of available Group Addresses in that network.

    After you've created your new groups, use the Copy Tags function to copy the name and number of the new group address across to the other network. This will help prevent you from having the same group address with a different name on the two networks.

    Unit Addresses and Group Addresses are two different things. Readdressing a unit alters the Unit Address. The Group Addresses remain unchanged by this.
    No drama, just create new groups for these keys and outputs using the procedure outlined above.

    If you have a copy of the network database, you can do all of this programming without being on-site, so you can experiment without needing to be connected to the physical network. Once you think you've got it sorted, on-site you can use the Transfer to Network function to push the programming that is in the database out to units on the real network
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2010
    Newman, Sep 19, 2010
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  6. mormj001

    mormj001

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    Thanks Newman, I guess all I was missing or not understanding is that I should be assigning the group address from the unit itself. I couldn't understand how creating a group address manually could link it back to that particular load. Now that I understand doing it from the unit itself, all should be fine.

    What do I do about my existing conflicts that have the same group address? Will the copy tags override any conflicting group address when I transfer from network to network? OR should I delete all the groups and start again on the wireless side perhaps. (NOTE: When I did the copy tags last time, groups went missing that had the same group address and were replaced with the new group)

    I understand off site programming and will do it tonight but the later problem will still exist I believe.
     
    mormj001, Sep 20, 2010
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  7. mormj001

    Newman

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    To get around the issue of conflicting groups I would create new ones on the wireless units wherever you have a conflict. Then, use the copy tags feature to copy those tags back across to your wired C-Bus network to ensure you don't inadvertently use the same groups in a wired C-Bus unit.
     
    Newman, Sep 20, 2010
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  8. mormj001

    mormj001

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    Just one last thing, creating these groups 'offline' in the database won't cause any issues? The software is smart enough to make sure the new groups will be assigned uniquely even though I am not on the network?

    Thanks for your help
     
    mormj001, Sep 20, 2010
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  9. mormj001

    NickD Moderator

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    The software relies on starting with a database that is an accurate reflection of the network. As long as you have scanned the network and then transferred this to the database it should all be OK.

    It sounds to me like you would benefit from starting with a clean slate in terms of group addresses and tags, as I described in my previous post.

    Obviously how easy this is depends on how many group addresses and channels you are dealing with.. how many different group addresses do you have on each network?

    Nick
     
    NickD, Sep 20, 2010
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  10. mormj001

    mormj001

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    I only have 15 wireless and 25 wired groups.
    With starting from scratch, I am concerned about losing all the programming I have done with the c-touch.
     
    mormj001, Sep 20, 2010
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