Who are the DALI switched on suppliers in Adelaide?

Looking to put in some DALI dimmable flouros in a house mainly in the general living areas. These would be flouro downlights which would be dimmable via DALI dimmable ballasts.

C-Bus will be through out the house including the dunnies! Want to be able to find a supplier/wholesaler in Adelaide that has a DALI set up where you can go and see and talk DALI with them? Then make a decision then buy from them.

It appears that Tridonactco have a range of DALI dimmable ballasts that look to have potential. All I need to do is find a location that have these set up with some flouros lighting range.

Alternatively if such a place doesn't exist in Adelaide I will look to buy a DALI C-Bus interface and some ballasts and lights to get my hands dirty. Either way I will get my head around it, just be nice just to knock on someones door rather getting another bump on my head! I am running out of spots where they can go!

Appreciate if you know of a point of reference supplier with DALI knowledge and hopefully able to sell at a fair price.

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

No normal lighting shop will be able to assist - you will need to contact a Commercial lighting company like Moonlighting.

You should consider whether the cost and complexity of DALI is required in a domestic situation. It might be a lot easier and simpler using 0-10V Analogue control if you want to dim.

You can convert any existing downlight to DALI (electronic ballast) but the lamps must be 4 pin. This will almost certainly require a lampholder change from 2 pin to 4 pin, which is much more complex that you think (how to order the lampholders?). You'd be better off buying a complete downlight, ready to go.

For DALI and 0-10V, ballasts are available from all major ballast manufuacturers. TridonicAtco, Osram, Philips, Vossloh Schwabe, and a multitude of other players. I doubt there is any functional difference between these well-known ballast brands. But each lighting manufacturer will have their preferred supplier, and I'd recommend that you don't try and force a certain brand upon the supplier unless you have a specific need for it.

 

Hi John,

Thanks for the prompt and detailed reply.

I am interested in the 0-10V analogue solution as I know Clipsal make a 0-10V analog C-Bus unit.

What was originally going to put in was 4 groups of 4 Halogen downlights 12v lamps in the living areas. Now looking at what I would have to do to replace these with a dimmable flouro solution.

Would I be correct in assuming that I would only require one 0-10V channel per group of 4 FL down lights? Just the one L5504AMP for the 4 areas?

How many dimmable ballasts would I require for the group of 4? Are there single ballast with mulitple 4 pins outputs? Or are they a unit per lamp? The 240V input to the ballast are wired permanantly and not seperately switched? The 0V then becomes the "OFF" switch correct? I loaded up a L5504AMP in ToolKit and assigned a GA to a output and then loaded the same GA into a keypad and selected dimmer function so it would appear that the 0V would equal 0 level and the 10V equals level 255 and it is a very linear transition for dimming. All seems seemless pardon the pun!

I agree that buying the complete unit would be the way to go especially since I have no lamps existing. What colour temperature would you recommend for living/lounge/dine/kitchen areas? It is all open plan so I assume they would need to be the same colour temp.

I was only heading down the DALI path as I thought that this was the smart option....indeed the smart option was to throw it up on the forum and have knowledgable people review proposed directions.

Does this now give me more options as to who would stock these types of 0-10V ballasts? Or are they still in the commercial relm??

Appreciate your input and assistance to date.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Regarding how many ballasts you can connect to the Analogue Output unit, that will depend upon how much current they sink. The Analogue Output unit can source about 2.5mA and sink about 8mA so that is your limit.

One thing to watch out for on the intelligent ballasts is that they can consume quite a bit of power even when the load is off, like 1W or so.

Along with 0-10V, there's also DSI to consider which, unlike DALI, doesn't require special configuration software/procedures to get it up and running.

 

Hi Newman,

Thanks for the heads up on the sourcing current and the intelligent ballast.

What are the comparitive pros and cons of going 0-10V verses DSI.

Is there a list of approved suitable ballasts that Clipsal publish?

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

Don't forget the 5101R either - it can control 0-10V (undocumented feature now days, but trust me it works) as well as having a relay channel. This is a very cheap and easy solution for 0-10V units !!

You can get ballasts that handle 2 lamps, but they are designed to be inbuilt. Master/Slave opereation will probably create excessive EMC (RFI), and there is other mechanical problems like running 5-core cables between ballasts and lamps.

NO - You need a relay to cut the power for 0-10V (read below). DSI and DALI can set the lamp to zero, but you need a master switch of some form to cut the power for lamp changing etc. As Newman says, the standby power of DSI and DALI ballasts is quite substantial (more like 2 or 3W I would say)

0 on a 0-10V equates to minimum lamp brightness, generally 5% for linear fluoro and 10% for CFL. Note that lamp life of fluoros can be VERY poor when they are run at low dim settings. DALI will give the most "linear-looking" response to dimming (ie: 50% control = 50% apparent brightness). DSI is worse and 0-10V generally worse again. This is because of the human eye's logarithmic response to light levels, and that DALI has the best brightness mapping so far developed.

3000?K is best, that is the same colour as Halogen. In Nth Queensland and Darwin they use cooler lamps, often 5000?K, to create a cooler environment in the hotter climate. Yes, all light sources in a space MUST be the same colour tempterature, otherwisde the "majority" will look "white" and the smaller quantity will appear "yellow" or "Blue" in comparison. The eye always colour-corrects automatically (hard to explain here in a forum post), so white is not necessarily white.

Unlikely that anyone will stock ANY form of dimmable CFL downlights. They are a commercial product. You should count on well over $200 for a decent quality product with ballast and lamps - and you won't live long enough to EVER get a payback in energy savings. Also note that the downlights I am referring to will be about 200mm diameter. Nothing like a IRC halogen!

 

I posted some techy info on 0-10V vs DSI vs DALI in this older thread :

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2626

 

Hi John,

Thanks for the link it explains the three systems great.

Geez $200 a light....that got me a lot less enthusiastic! Quick tally up $3800 including a C-Bus 0-10V or DSI vs around $400 using Osram IRC. How many beers can you buy for $3400!?

Do you forsee the DALI system jumping into the domestic market given the green direction we are going in. It seems that the technology is developed, proven and probably paid for seems the volume domestic market is ripe for the picking if the price is right. There maybe other agendas here thou!

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

Agree Ashleigh....another agenda will drive it. Profit! Maybe if the world goes the way Turnbull does it will make the numbers interesting! Interesting enough for a Clipsal to come up with STDPB protocol and implement it in the C-Bus system. STDPB = Screw The DALI Protocol Buggers!!! That may see the pants around their ankles!!

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

After having commissioned 22 floors times 4 networks of DALI in Adelaide in the last 12 months I would avoid it if possible. Not looking forward to the next project with DALI involved.

For a few lighting circuits you are far better off putting in DSI or analogue both of which still have the same control as DALI, minus the headaches.

 

Thanks Anton,

Appreciate sharing your experience. I have been swayed off DALI with the input and good advice, if I go in the dimming fluoro path DSI or 0-10V analog would be the go.

Thanks again,

Fleetz