What's Missing?

Can't this be achieved by placing the groups you want into the logic area of the output units. You don't have to assign an and or OR function to them, just leave them grayed out but I think they will then be included int he MMI messages.

Its not the "real" answer to your request, but it may be a workaround until you get your wish

Mick

 

What C-bus needs

G'day all
C-Bus has what is commonly called "standby power" issues.
There's lots of Watts dissipating 24/7 having C-bus installed, so you need to have a PIR turning of some lights to break even before you start "saving energy". A relay with power supply chugs over 3 watts continously, every key input 0.5 a watt.
I was extremely disapointed to find the power supply of a MRA amp chewing up 7.5-8 watts continously when the unit is off . Turn it on with a low level volume output and it only just gets over 10watts.

Please look into designing less losses into all current & future products.
Then we can sell C-Bus as an "Energy Management System" with a clear conscience.
Regards
Matthew

 

LED Controllers is an absolute minefield - there are far too many different systems for LED power supplies. 10V, 24V, contast current, constant voltage (with current control inside the module). Each LED type needs a matching dirvier circuit, each wattage of LED needs a different current output. Some LED modules are wired in series (constant current) whilst others are wired in parallel.

Any such "C-Bus LED Controller" device could only be proprietary to certain, specific brands and wattages of LEDs. It would be an absolute nightmare if installers didn't match the products correctly.

LED Controllers from "other" Australian control system companies are only suitable for specific brands of LED modules. That is not a flexible solution.

 

CBus Retail Solution

I have suggested this before and was shot out of the water but here goes.

If Clipsal are serious about really getting into the market, they need to change the mindset of the basic homebuilder and sparky.

Talk to them about CBus and they laugh at the prohibitive cost and stick with the standard electrical topography thus cancelling out any real opportunity for CBus in the future.

How about Clipsal put together a basic pack consisting of one 12 ch relay and 12 x 5031NL, hell they can even be pre-programmed. Offer it to the market at say $500 and see if they can keep up with demand. It is called a loss leader and all successful companies use them.

The real magic comes in the future. Builders will offer it as an inclusion because it becomes close enough in price to standard electrics that it will be a commercially "smart inclusion". More sparkies will begin to use it, even in its most basic form and most importantly, homes begin to be built with the CBus topography.

Once Mr & Mrs Mortgage catch up with their payments, they may want to add a dimmer or two, then a colour touch screen or three and guess what, they can because they installed the basic pack!

 

May have been mentioned already and is likely a fairly easy update of programs and firmware - could we have access to the global i/o's from the cbus input units.

I want to be able to have a user selectable c-touch screen to edit a timers value and use this for the cbus input, atm it requires a large amount of logic to perform the same task as the units built in functions ie PIR.

If we could select the i/o's value for the time it would be great.

 

Thanks Phoneman

This was really a request for product, not marketing (how to sell more C-Bus).

Not too sure what you mean about Clipsal being serious about "getting into the market".... They are already well intrenched as the market leader in home automation in Australia. The product is not and will not be aimed at the basic home builder. I don't believe there is such as a thing as a basic sparky... all have the same opportunity to work with C-Bus if they choose.

The product is available (in the wired form) for the middle market. Wireless is a retrofit product that is available for the 'lower' market segment. There will be more on this soon (some significant changes to the product and it's pricing).

Thanks for your feedback.

 

user upgradeable firmware

 

The power dissipation of all C-Bus units is kept to a bare minimum. What you are seeing is a consequence of making the system easy to install and reliable in operation.

The nominal voltage of the system is kept high at 36V so that resistive losses in the CAT5 cabling can be tolerated (all C-Bus units are designed to operate down to 15V). A classic key unit with a current drain of 18mA will dissipate only 0.27W at 15V, and with this power, it has to be able to illuminate a number of LEDs and maintain continuous communication with all other units on the network.

If we have enough interest, it might be worthwhile offering a lower voltage power supply, but that would put constraints on the wiring (shorter runs, more copper) which would not appeal to most users. Throwing away some of the LEDs would result in less flashy products but could drop a few more mA from key unit consumption, but here again, this would not appeal to all customers.

There are many clever ways to reduce consumption further, but all I can think of will either increase complexity (and cost) or put more constraints on the installation.

We will keep trying to improve the system!

 

Based on my other topic, a fibre converter for the C-bus network to allow longer underground connection (also gives lightning protection).

Mick

 

Definitely agree regarding firmware being flash-able. Even if it must be done on a "return-to-factory" basis.

If I can flash the firmware in $40 DVD Player, I should be able to flash the firmware in a $300 light switch or $800 dimmer.

 

1. Additional channels on the wireless switch range. This would be great for retrofitting 2 storey houses where there are more than 2 circuits, eg bathroom.

2. As already mentioned, ability to adjust a timer value on a b&w touch.

 

I would like to see the irrigation control system have a rain delay (by way of an input) added to it. In this modern era there are devices that will give an output when there has been enough rain to negate watering.

It could have a user selectable number of days withing the manager. Though I do find the existing system good with user selectable days it would be worth while keeping this function but not everyone is at home to press the button (or remember to).

Second I would like to see the special functions broadened to allow the run zone manually function to have all zones selectable or multiple zones (up to the sixteen maximum via drop down boxes would be nice) otherwise there does not seem to be anyway to invoke this without logic code.

Cheers

 

Now that the cost of large flash memory has dropped ($5.00 for 1GB flash drive advertised last week!), wouldn't it be nice to offer a standard socket in devices like C-Touch and PAC, and possibly even DLT, so that the capacity of these products could be increased.
Standard plug-in units also are attractive from the point of view that they can be configured via PC or other tool and then connected to the C-Bus unit. If it was done cleverly, it may be possible to keep a complete copy of the entire unit configuration on the flash module and configuration on site could be as simple as undo a few screws and clip in the module.
On a DLT this could be useful for offering new display functionality (want to display a temperature, anyone?), of of course new fonts / language support.

I'm not sure about power consumption of these flash devices, but since they are used in portable cameras, it can't be all that high - there is probably a tradeoff that we swould have to expect between transfer rate and power consumption which would put an upper limit on practical capacity.

Of course a socket will add cost, but on high value-added products perhaps this would not be a problem?

 

I would like the ability to group groups.

A similar feature to the Logic's TAB, however not to have AND or OR.

Something along the lines of what you can do with DALI Ballasts, where you can individually address each Ballast or Group the DALI Ballasts as a group, in C-Bus world this would be the OutPut Channels.

This would allow C-Bus to have TOTAL CONTROL...

 

That is what the Area will do for you, although I would prefer to see an extra level of grouping between the area and the individual groups.

Also, areas should not be limited to physical outputs, but rather the user should be able to assign which groups are in the area of choice.

Mick

 

are any of these ideas being considered???

We were asked... shared our ideas, but no feedback....

It would be nice to know what may be on the drawing board?

Cheers

Grant

 

You got it....

http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=27452#post27452

 

After reading the product specs looks like it completey does what I was wishing for + more

Your estimate was about right !!

Charles