Using black and white touch screen to controll floor heating

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Noremac1, May 17, 2010.

  1. Noremac1

    Noremac1

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    Hi have a big problem that was started by the previous electrician. Basically starts out like this. Last of should i say first electrician was aware of under floor heating, problem is 450m of 70mm2 3phase supply. Underfloor heating almost 50A per phase volt drop doesnt comply which means having to switch the zones and having interlocking so they dont turn on. this is what the underfloor guy wrote to me in regards to the switching
    "I have done some homework regarding calculations for power consumptions; I think Revision # 8 is the most likely as it provides the Family / Meals / Kitchen area as the main priority sections. I have given thought to switching times, this is a guide only, I think F/M/K (ZONE # 1)should be the major concern and 12.00 to 3.00am / 5.00 to 6.00am hopefully will establish a storage heat bank and be followed up with afternoon boost 15.00 to 16.00pm enough for 24 / 7 heat ban? ZONE #2 is 3.01am / 4.59am and 13.00pm to 14.59pm - passage, bed 2, bed 1 and bath should be on for the duration of the other available off peak time."

    Zone 1 and 2 are inter locked on 6 chanels
    On the screen i want a master on off, individual zone controls (ie bed 1 off but the other areas will work) I dont want the home owner to beable to adjust the times as im sure it will have to be schedualed

    I hope thats no to dificult

    Cheers
    Cameron
     
    Noremac1, May 17, 2010
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  2. Noremac1

    Newman

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    Are these relay channels interlocked using the interlocking feature of Relay units or is there some additional interlocking provided somehow?

    Is this to disable the schedules, turn off any active zones, or both?

    By this do you mean that you wish to turn a zone on/off or do you mean that you wish to manually enable/disable the schedule for that zone?
     
    Newman, May 18, 2010
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  3. Noremac1

    Noremac1

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    ZONE 1 ZONE 2

    Ok so chanel 1 and 2 is interlocked.
    An active feeds chanel 1 and when turned on will allow power to go to chanel 3,4,5. (3kitchen,4dining,5lounge)
    An active feeds chanel 2 and when turned on will allow power to go to chanel 6,7,8,9 (6hall,7bed1,8bed2,9bath)

    does that make sence. THe software interlock allows either zone 1 or zone 2. then the chanels 3to9 are the actual areas. (all these are just swiched actives as the under floor already has contactors for each zone)

    MASTER

    on the screen will be having a button that says heating or something like that. This will disable or enable the entire system. summer comes..... turn the schedule off.

    I also want to manually enable/disable the schedule for that zone so if for instance they dont want the hallways on they can disable them from the screen without having to go out to the switchboard and turn off the circuit breakers.

    Hope that answers the question
     
    Noremac1, May 18, 2010
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  4. Noremac1

    Newman

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    There's probably quite a few different ways this could be done, but here's what comes to mind initially.

    What I'd probably do
    In Toolkit, The software interlocking between Channels 1 and 2 of the relay unit will prevent the two zones turning on simultaneously, so that bit can be left alone.

    I'd then use logic in the relay units to function as master on/off for all heating/cooling operations. Tick the box for all the relay channels associated with the under-floor heating system and use And logic to link them to a Master Floor Heating group.

    In PICED, for each area (kitchen,dining,lounge,hall,bed1,bed2,bath) I'd create an independent schedule that pulses the corresponding Group on for the required duration. The reason for independent schedules is so that you can disable them independently. Give each schedule a unique Enable Control group so that it can be disabled.

    If you need to run an area more than once in a day, create a new schedule for the new time, but assign it the same Enable Control group that you've created for that area. In this way, only 1 button will be needed to disable all the schedules for any given area.

    Create another 2 schedules to turn on and off the Zone 1 and Zone 2 groups at the correct times of day for each zone. Program both of these schedules to be enabled/disabled by the Master Floor Heating group on the Lighting Application.

    Create just 1 more schedule that turns off all the zone groups and area groups daily, at a time when no heating is active, e.g. midday.

    Create a Master button on the B&W and associate it with this Master Floor Heating group. This will be your master enable/disable for the underfloor heating.

    On the B&W create a button and a status indicator for each area. Link each of these buttons to it's corresponding Schedule using the Enable Control application (the default in PICED for this sort of thing). Link the status indicators for each area to the corresponding Lighting Groups for those channels. This will give you control over the schedules for those areas as well as visual feedback on whether the area is currently heating.

    Create a couple of status indicators and associate them with the lighting groups for Zone 1 and 2, to give you feedback that the Zone relay has been turned on.

    Lastly, I'd put some big text or an indicator of some sort to show that the whole system is running or not, linked to the Master Floor Heating group.

    How it works
    With everything Enabled, the Schedules will turn on the 2 Zones automatically at the right time of day. This will turn on relays 1 and 2 in the relay unit at the correct times for each zone. The individual area schedules will turn on the relay channels associated with each individual area at the correct times.

    If you want to disable an area, press the button for it on the B&W. That individual area will then not turn on (schedule for it is now disabled), but all other areas will be unaffected.

    If you want to disable the heating system during summer, press the Master button. This will disable the schedules that turn on the Zone 1 and 2 relays. It will also turn off all the relays, even if they were on when the button was pressed, because of the And logic programmed into the Relay unit. The schedules for the individual areas will still run, but the area relays won't turn on (relay unit logic) and there will be no power available for the zones because the zone schedules are not running and the zone relays are forced off by the relay unit logic.

    The reason for the extra schedule that turns off all zone and area groups at midday is to cover the case where a schedule for an area gets disabled whilst it's currently on. It prevents a zone from getting stranded in the On state. The area won't inadvertently get power at the wrong time of day, since the zone schedules and interlocking prevent that, but this schedule will tidy up any "loose ends" so that disabled zones don't get inadvertently heated.

    You can do away with the status indicators if you want, and just have a Master + individual Area buttons, but not having status feedback will make it a pain when trying to debug it whilst getting the programming right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2010
    Newman, May 19, 2010
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  5. Noremac1

    Noremac1

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    Thanks for you help will try and give it a go today
     
    Noremac1, May 20, 2010
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