Unable to apply labels for Trigger Control on DLT

A problem that I have had huge frustrations with recently is not being able to apply labels to Trigger Control groups on the DLT.
I have scenes stored in a touch screen and so that I can toggle the scenes easily have set up the scene triggers for the 'on' and 'off' scenes accordingly.
I have programmed the DLT with the trigger group and tried to label the DLT so that the end user can see which scene they are activating.

This does not allow me to save any labels to the unit for the trigger control groups. The only way to label these keys is to program them with another app, say lighting, label and then reprogram the unit.
This to me is a complete waste of time. The facility is in toolkit to allow you to create labels for ALL applications, and ALL applications should be able to be saved to the unit in my opinion.

Further to this the labeling of scenes is equally frustrating and you must follow the same process. Program the key once with lighting etc, program the labels, then reprogram the key with the scenes that you want to be on the keys.

Is there any good reason why you should not be able to label DLTs for any application?
Has anyone else had these same frustrations?

Cheers guys.

Anton

 

I program the DLT unit with the Trigger Control group that I have set as the scene trigger, then go to the Edit Labels, create the names that I want for those groups, and save them to the network and database.
Nothing shows on the DLT.
I have tried resetting labels on the unit, but still nothing changes.
There are 6 DLTs on the floor with the identical groups programmed in them, but none have responded to the labels being saved to them.
I have checked with other applications and the labels save correctly. (the Dynamic labeling check box on the global tab is ticked)

I have also noticed that I can only set up Trigger Control on the secondary application.

As I'm still involved in finishing off a major site, 21 networks, I have been using 1.5.3 and will upgrade at the completion of the site very soon.

 

I have the same problem.

Yes, I have the same problem.
Only primary Lighting Apps is OK, not secondary Trigger Control.

Valery R.

 

The problem here is not with Toolkit, but with the way you are triggering scenes from the DLT.

When a DLT receives ANY Label command in the Control trigger application, it will only apply it if the Trigger Group and Action selector in the command match those of a scene key of the DLT. A scene key can be 'empty', but always requires a trigger group and action selector in order to be labeled. 'empty' scenes are the intended way to trigger scenes stored in another unit, such as C-Touch. Using scene keys also automatically provides indication of the active scene, which is difficult to do other ways.

When a non-scene key is programmed with a secondary application matching the Control Trigger application, it has no Trigger Group or Action selector associated with it, so the label command will not work. If the DLT were to be made to allow Control trigger application label commands to work in such cases, then the Action selector would have to somehow be associated with the key, and unfortunately due to limited EEPROM space in the unit, it is not possible to associate an action selector with a 'normal' key; action selectors can only be associated with scene keys.

Normally, each scene requires a separate button on the DLT, and if set up as separate scene keys, you can certainly 'turn a scene on and off' by selecting between two scenes, one of which has all groups OFF. Another way to do the same thing on the DLT, would be to set up one scene key and one scene modifier key, with the modifier function selected as 'toggle'. The modifier actually will be applied to any active scene so this way you can toggle a number of scenes initiated by the DLT at the expense of only one extra button. What you are trying to do ('toggle' a scene with one key) is possible but requires the key to be set up as a non-scene key as you have done. It would probably be easier to achieve what you want by NOT selecting Control Trigger as the secondary Application, but instead, use a lighting application for the trigger. C-Touch allows you to select a lighting application for the trigger group, and this would then result in easy labelling of the DLT button.

Your approach of using a different application to label the keys to be used as you are doing is fine, and is probably the simplest approach, but only if you have some application that does not allow the use of scene keys and must operate in the Control Trigger application.

 

Thanks Don.

I understand what you are saying. I guess there is no reason why I need to trigger scenes from Control Trigger groups, but have just seen this as the "correct" way to do it until now.

The reason why keys like a scene modify aren't appropriate in this situation is the request of the client, and trying to program to suit there requirements. It is a large open plan office space, with smaller offices in the central area. All they want visible on the DLT are toggle keys for 4 areas of the floor, only for after hours use, and only if the PIRs don't bring on the lights automatically for some reason.
By adding scene modifiers this would then force the user to change page to switch off the lights that they just switched on. Something which they don't want to have to have the users doing.
In a domestic setting where you only have a handful of people that will use the key this is fine, and keys will be able to be programmed to show the most used keys first, and the lesser second. But in an office situation where they want to keep all areas on all floors the same (where possible) this isn't always achievable.

What I have found dealing with the corporate market is that they really aren't interested in a lot of bells and whistles, they basically want everything to happen automatically with minimal user interaction.
I even have a touch screen on one floor with out a single button on it, only used for schedules. On this same floor I have 5 DLTs which I may be asked to 'unprogram' and leave entirely blank if the automatic operation of the lights is found to be adequate for their needs.
These basic needs I have found across the board with all the commercial installations that I have been to so far.

What I think they are really in need of is a Tele switch, Telepathic that is Just walk into the room and the lights react to the way that you desire in your mind

Anton

 

I'm having the same (HUGE) frustrations with this difficult to understand labelling methodology.

I have 12 DLT's. Currently two of them are assigned two different trigger groups each containing a single action selector. Each of the two DLT's hold a scene linked to the respective action selector.

I want to trigger the scene held on the remote DLT from the local DLT AND it's own local scene. I also want the labels shown correctly.

Are you saying that this isn't possible without using the work-around that Anton mentions?

I believe I can't use the scene function here as two trigger groups are involved and the DLT can only have one trigger group set for all it's keys?

How can I label these?

On a broader note - why are the DLT labels setup in this way - it's incredibly confusing when getting to grips with it. Why not just have a labelling section in the DLT unit setup screens where you can directly write to the DLT in question with whatever text/graphic you like? Or am I missing a technical reason for this???

Thanks,

Paul.

 

Thanks Ashleigh,

It's good to hear that DLT labelling in Toolkit will be overhauled - it's quite confusing having to go to a completely different part of the app to do this - and remember what groups you modified etc!

Will the help system in Toolkit also get a revamp? The old MS help system is now longer supported or recommended by MS I believe (not supported on Vista although you van download the files from MS). I found the help system full of great info but it's very difficult to navigate and find what you want.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

Yes I have seen some bad designs.

The Adobe system isn't bad though but they use lots of rich content - pictures, screen grabs etc...