Turning OFF two other groups when turning another group OFF

Hi,
Newbie to the forum.
Have a C-Bus installation with several relay units, Dali for LED lighting and a network interface.
I have a requirement where I want a couple of groups to switch off when a main group is turned off.
The issue seems simple but I do not want these other groups to turn on when main group is turned on.
So using the block feature does not work as it turns the other groups on when the main group is turned on which I do not want.
Relay logic also does seem to fit this requirement.
I have two small rooms connected to a main room, each of them has their own C-Bus group. The two smaller rooms need to operate their lighting independently either on or off, but when the lights in the main room are turned off the lights in the two smaller rooms also need to turn off.
Switches used are 5031NMML.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Ray

 

If you have a spare switch on the same unit as the main switch the simplest solution is to create a scene on a spare button that sets a scene that turns off the 3 groups.

 

Hi Ashley,
Yes, thank you that would work, but we do not have a spare switch.
The issue is the client was sold the C-Bus system as an all singing all dancing Rolls Royce home automation system by his previous installer so the client now expects it to perform miracles.
He gave the previous installer the flick because he was not up to scratch and we are now attempting to pick up the pieces.

 

Any logic devices like Touch Screens, Wiser or SHAC?

 

Sorry no.
Just switches, relay units and Dali

 

So assuming:
1) You haven't used the secondary application in the switch (ok if it's already set to trigger control)
2) You have a spare virtual switch
3) You have another switch unit that has no scenes defined

Proceed as follows:

1) Create a new trigger group with an action selector of 0 and name it OFF
2) In the other unit create a scene that turns off the 2 bedroom lights and give it the new trigger group/action selector.
3) In the main switch under unit identification, select Trigger Control as the secondary application
4) In a spare virtual switch select secondary application, then select the action selector, then select the function as OFF
5) Go to the blocks tab and under the column for the main switch, tick the block that has the action selector in it.

When you click the main switch the virtual switch will follow the ON/OFF of the main switch. Setting the action selector as ON won't do anything, but setting it OFF will trigger the scene. The scene needs to be in a separate unit as you can't trigger a local scene by its action selector.

 

Thank you for your persistence.
Will be going to site late next week so will try this out.
Will let you know my results.

 

Thought I would set things up in tool kit before hand to get my head around it.

Using 5031NMML switches which allow four physical switches master and three slave mechs and four virtual key groups. No slave key mechs are connected in this case, just using the master mech.

In your step 4, if I use virtual key group 5, the first virtual key it will allow me to set a secondary application, then select the action selector, but when I select function tab it only allows, unused/fan speed cycle/scene options to be selected, no OFF function is offered in the drop down menu.

If however when I use one of the unused unconnected key 3 group, set to secondary application, then select action selector it has an OFF selection under its function menu.

Have I missed something?

Setup the scene in another 5031NMML mech unrelated to the areas used in the scene.
Have done steps 1 to 3 and all seemed to go okay, just issue with step 4.

 

I haven't used the mechs before, and it appears that the virtual keys only work for remotely triggered scenes. It's a bit frustrating why clipsal seems determined to remove more and more functionality from new units where the rest of the world manages to add it.

It seems to work using one of the slave positions though, so given they are currently unused, give one of those a go.

 

I share your frustration.
The plan is to get you to purchase additional hardware to gain functions that should be present in the basic hardware. Great business model when you can get away with it.

Set this up on my C bus system to try things out.
Unfortunately it does not function as it should.

Have included screen shots of the setup screens.
The scene is setup on an unrelated switch.
With the screen shots also showing the master switch setup.

From the log, ignoring the bathroom, the master switch (garage is turned on) and it turns on the garage group and activates the trigger.
I then turned on the basement group.
Turning off the master switch (garage) it turns off the garage group, activates the trigger, but does not trigger the scene.

Ignore the M1 command, my system is integrated with a M1 security system, my clients is not.

Any idea why it is not triggering the scene?

My system is older than my clients but I have a few 5031NMML mechs in my system the same as used in my clients system which is what I programmed in my test.

 

According to the log, you are triggering action selector 38. It should be 0.

 

Yes, looking at the other photos in my previous post trigger 0 is selected.

The trigger appears to be taking the address of the master switch which is 38.
Just for giggles changed the scene trigger to 38 and that did not work.

I must be setting up the trigger wrong.
Do not have any existing trigger groups so the new trigger group is 0.
Then add the action selector as shown in the photos which shows as action selector 0.

 

I just checked on the Cbus application log and the number displayed is actually the unit initiating the trigger, not the action selector value, so what you are seeing is correct. It's clearly trying to trigger the scene though, so have you assigned the correct action selector for the scene? You don't show that anywhere. The scene needs to be assigned to an unused button, and if you click on the three dots next to the function you can select the action selector you want.

 

That was the trick.
Assigned the scene to a virtual button on the switch I set the scene up in and it is now working.
Thank you for your help.

Would be nice if they allowed selection time for how long a group was switched on in a scene, not just on, off or a level.

 

Glad you got it working

Agree. This is where a logic device comes in handy.