Turning a 5034NL switch into an OUTPUT UNIT!!

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by greig, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. greig

    greig

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Petersham - Sydney
    Hi All,


    I've recently attached my blue and white striped butcher's apron and turned a 4-gang switch into an Output Unit!

    I wanted some logic-level outputs (to switch Luxeon LEDs), so desoldered the switch LEDs from the PCB, replaced them with bog-standard 4N25 opto-isolators and - voila! - instant bus-powered, isolated 4-channel output unit.

    Can anyone suggest if CIS is likely to productise an offering in a similar vein? I'd be much happier buying an official product to do this jobby rather than my own modifications.

    I'm sure there are plenty of applications people can think of. An output unit that doesn't have 240V going into it would surely be a top seller!




    Greig.
     
    greig, Aug 26, 2007
    #1
  2. greig

    Darpa

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Very clever Greig, just hope you don't ever need to use your now voided warranty :p

    But seriously, nice work, very creative :)
     
    Darpa, Aug 26, 2007
    #2
  3. greig

    greig

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Petersham - Sydney
    Thanks for the compliment Darpa.

    The unit I killed was an old first-gen 5034 sourced from the collection of retired bits here, so its warranty died many years ago..

    This was an initiative for my home installation, so it's not like I'm butchering these on a commercial basis and selling them to customers...

    I ack that someone will suggest my whole installation is now un-supported, but you get that - but it's the people who are pushing the boundaries & doing creative things that help the system grow and evolve. Like I said in the initial posting, I'd like to see a legit equivalent.



    G.
     
    greig, Aug 26, 2007
    #3
  4. greig

    ashleigh Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    I believe a voltage free relay unit is the legit equivalent.

    Your cobbled up unit may do what you want. It is not a full blown output unit for a number of reasons, the biggest being:

    1. It does not put output status into MMIs to allow detection and correction of state errors.

    2. It does not support output unit logic.

    3. It does not support turn on thresholds and min/max level scaling.

    Your suggestion needs to be fed to product management.

    ** FOR ANYBODY ELSE CONTEMPLATING SUCH A MODIFICATION **

    Please make sure opto-couplers are rated to an isolation of 3750V or more, and take care with where you make mods or run wires. If your change results in less than 3750V of isolation you have the potential to compromise the integrity of your entire C-Bus network and all devices attached to it.

    Obligatory disclaimer: Clipsal is not responsible for any device modified as described, and will not provide warranty support on such a device OR ANY NETWORK TO WHICH SUCH A DEVICE IS CONNECTED. Clipsal is not responsible for the safety, integrity, or isolation of such networks. Clipsal recommends that any devices modified as described are tested for electrical isolation by an accredited testing organisation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2007
    ashleigh, Aug 27, 2007
    #4
  5. greig

    Don

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Townsville, Australia
    On yer!

    You could do the same with a real output unit, of course. Any of the older style or the DIN relays drives each output separately with a simple on / off control. The older ones even have opto isolators sitting there all ready to play with.

    Of course I can't recommend this procedure, but I can say that if you start with an output unit, you win the advantage of the C-Bus error correction mechanism operating a intended, and you can use the threshold and logic bits in the core to advantage; input unit options are kind of limited

    As for dimmed output channels, that gets a bit trickier, because except for the analogue output unit, and some really, really old units, the levels for each channel are sent serially with channel identifier and checksum from the C-Bus micro to the dimming micro, and that won't drive your LEDs very nicely.
     
    Don, Aug 27, 2007
    #5
  6. greig

    Darpa

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Don, I thought the only true way to dim LEDs was via PWM (Pulse Width Modulation)?
     
    Darpa, Aug 27, 2007
    #6
  7. greig

    Darpa

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Totally agree with you there Greig, I definately wasn't critisizing you :)
     
    Darpa, Aug 27, 2007
    #7
  8. greig

    greig

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Petersham - Sydney
    Thanks Darpa, no offence taken.

    For this application the 5034 makes a great output unit. I can use the PACA to deliver output logic using some more dummy groups (if I decide I need it).

    This particular unit will be suspended on about 4m of chain from a very high ceiling in an old glass light fitting, fed with 12V DC, and controlling some Luxeons - largely as a nightlight.

    The interface needed to be small, and I didn't want 240V going into the fitting (several reasons why embedding a $400 relay unit into a lamp wasn't going to be an option).


    Ashleigh, many thanks for the reminder re electrical isolation. I'll up-rate my optos before it gets commissioned and pay particular care to their physical separation and cable layout during the assembly.



    Greig.
     
    greig, Aug 27, 2007
    #8
  9. greig

    Don

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Townsville, Australia
    Darpa - just to clarify - The analogue output and some (rare) older dimmers do use PWM to drive 2 LEDs, and also drive a third LED to achieve multiplexing so that a total of 4 LEDs can be effectively driven with a form of PWM at approximately 1kHz rate.
     
    Don, Aug 28, 2007
    #9
  10. greig

    Darpa

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Ah,
    Thanks for clearing that up for me Don, I learn lots of new things every day :)

    Cheers
     
    Darpa, Aug 28, 2007
    #10
Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.