Triggering Scenes

Hello

I am new to C-BUS and would like help with what is perhaps a very basic application.

In my kitchen I would like to have 2 groups of non-dimmable lights, for the purposes of this question called 'kitchen inner' and 'kitchen outer'. I would like to use a 5753L 360 deg flush mounted occupancy sensor so that in the evening (I assume 'motion in darkness' MD) the motion sensor will switch both kitchen inner and kitchen outer together so all kitchen lights are controlled and in the night (I assume sunset to sunrise SS) only kitchen inner would be switched by the motion sensor.

I started out by making 2 groups 'kitchen inner', 'kitchen outer' on a relay module and realised that switching of more than 1 group at a time is not possible as you can only enter 1 group in the 'key' fields of the motion sensor. The way forward seems to be to create scences.

The motion sensor does not support scences as far as I can see so to me one solution would be to use 2 keys of my 5G DLT and assign them as scene 1and scene 2

scene 1 - kitchen both - kitchen inner 100%, kitchen outer 100%
scene 2 - kitchen inner - kitchen inner 100%

In setting up of the scences I noticed that only a single trigger group could be created 'KITCHEN' with the note 'This trigger group applies to all scenes on this unit', I did not really understand this note but then realised that individual action selectors can be made, 'kitchen inner act', 'kitchen outer act' so I thought these could be used as the trigger?

my idea was to trigger these scences from the motion sensor, so I set the motion sensor secondary action to 'trigger control' , and intended to use the key2 group (MD) to trigger 'kitchen both' and Key 3 (SS) to trigger to trigger 'kitchen inner, however in each case you can only enter the trigger group name 'KITCHEN' i.e. you dont have individual access to the action selctors so I cant see how this arrangement would switch the groups as I would like.

I have tried to attach screen shots to this mail to help explain what I have done.

Any help would be greatly appreciated !

I appreciate I have used up 2 keys on a DLT to do this and I am assuming the if the keys were operated the scences would also be activated by the DLT as well as the motion sensor.

 

The first issue you have here is the Sunset to Sunrise means just that. This uses a light level sensor (not PIR sensor) to trigger the group so that when the light level goes below the threshld set (i.e. sunset) the group will switch on, and when the light level goes back above the threshold (i.e. sunrise)the group will turn off. The movement sensor is not used. Motion in Darkness will trigger the group when movement is detected during the 'sunset to sunrise' period. So what you will have is Kitchen Inner continuously on when its dark, and Kitchen Outer on when it's dark and motion is detected. There is no way the sensor can tell evening from night as it doesn't know the time, just the light level (if it get dark enough during the day it can also trigger depending upon the light level trigger point you have set).

Aside from this problem triggering 2 groups is quite straighforward. Assuming you still want to use Motion in Darkness and Sunset to Sunrise, set Motion in Darkenss to Kitchen outer and Sunset to Sunrise to Kitchen Inner. Then go to the blocks tab and under the Motion in Darkness column (MD) tick the block that has the Kitchen Inner group (which will already have Sunset to Sunrise ticked). In this way Sunset to Sunrise will trigger Kitchen Inner and Motion in Darkness both Kitchen Inner and Kitchen Outer.

Solving your other issue will require a device with a clock like a PAC or Touchscreen with logic.

 

Hello Ashley

Thanks for your advice, I had assumed all 4 modes involved motion. I have wrote a basic script using PICED and a virtual touchscreen which seems to work OK. Its clear to me now that you need some kind of 'logic engine' when want to do things above and beyond basic switching.
The choices seem to be PAC (?350), touchscreen (B&W ?650) or wiser (?600). The PAC is cheapest but no GUI, the wiser seems to support things like an Iphone/PAD APP, but purely from a logic point of view do they all provide the same level of functionality.


{ IF KITCHEN INNER HAS BEEN SWITCHED BY MOTION SENSOR USING 'MOTION IN DARKNESS (MD)
THEN MAKE KITCHEN OUTER FOLLOW PROVIDING TIME IS BEFORE 11:00PM AND AFTER 6:00AM }


once (GetLightingState("KITCHEN INNER")= ON) then
begin

if (TIME <"11:00pm") AND (TIME > "6:00am") then
begin
SetLightingState("KITCHEN OUTER", ON)
end
end;

 

Logic functionality does vary with device although mainly to support specific features (like Irrigation, HVAC etc). The PICED help files have an excellent cross reference of the differences between devices.

That said I usually try to avoid writing logic when there are simpler and more efficient ways to perform the required action. Set up Kitchen Inner to be triggered by the sensor using Motion in Darkness. Create a schedule in your PAC/Wiser etc that turns Kitchen Outer on at the required time and another schedule that turns it off. In the output unit under the logic tab select Kitchen Inner as the logic group and tick the channel containing Kitchen Outer and MIN (for Dimmer) or AND (for Relay). This way Kitchen Outer will only be on when Kitchen Inner is on (by the sensor) and Kitchen Outer is on (by the schedule). If you use a Wiser you can then easily change the schedule from the GUI.

 

Hello Ashley,

Thanks for the alternative approach, I do intend to buy a wiser, I have been playing around trying to create a wiser/piced project but to be honest I'm struggling to get to grasp with some of the concepts(locations/groups/widgets) and can't even seem to get a simulation working.
Other than the manuals on the C-bus website have you come across other manuals or tutorials that might help.

Once again I am grateful for your help

 

Hi Steve
If you search the main Piced help for "unit differences" and "software limits" it should give you an idea of the capabilities of the various devices.

 

I'm pretty sure the wiser simulation mode only emulates the user interface. It won't run logic or schedules etc. You will need an actual Wiser to test the logic. Either that or just create a Colour Ctouch project to play with. That will simulate the logic for you and you can always copy it across to a Wiser project later.

Try opening some of the example projects and playing with them. Unfortunately there are no Wiser examples but numerous touch screen ones and plenty of example logic.