Switch AND PIR control of light

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by simont, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. simont

    simont

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    I am just about to start programming a large project where a lot of the rooms have a switch and PIR. The requirement is both the switch must be activated and the PIR must sense movement for the light to turn on. Also when the PIR times out the switch must be deactivated.

    Can this be achieved with just Toolkit programming of the switch and 5753L PIR?

    I would rather not do it in logic as there is only one touch screen for the 10 networks.

    Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


    Thanks,
    Simon.
     
    simont, Jul 3, 2012
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  2. simont

    Roosta

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    Why bother with the switches if the PIR are going to be in control?

    Really defeats the whole point, plus increases costs of the job..

    Now if there was a requirement to be able to manually control light and enable/disable sensor then i could see sense in having switch.. Thios happened on a project i worked on a while ago..

    Cheers,
    Nik
     
    Roosta, Jul 3, 2012
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  3. simont

    simont

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    This is what the consultant has specified and it wont be changing.

    The switch is to enable/disable the sensor. The challenge is once the sensor times out it can not disable itself.


    Thanks,
    Simon.
     
    simont, Jul 4, 2012
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  4. simont

    NickD Moderator

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    Sounds like what you want is
    - the switch to turn the light on
    - the sensor to turn the light off

    In which case you don't really need to use the switch to enable/disable the sensor, all you need to do is

    - set them both to use the same group
    - set the switch to control the group normally (ie on/off)
    - set the PIR "Motion in Light" and "Motion in Dark" to "Day Move" (default)
    - leave the PIR enable/disable group "unused"

    This way the PIR will never turn the group ON, it will only keep it on while movement is detected and the switch is on. If it times out, the switch will be turned off. In addition, the switch can still be used to manually turn the group off.

    The only part of the requirement this doesn't guarantee is that the initial turn ON doesn't require movement to be detected, but if the switch is in view of the PIR, then this would always be the case anyway.

    Nick

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jul 4, 2012
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  5. simont

    Matthew

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    Horses for courses

    That really depends on what you are trying to achieve, if it is the most energy efficient then this is the way you do it.
    Manual on, manual & auto off.

    I've seen an office where folks religiously turned there lights off. In went sensors and the power consumption went up. While this is extreme, sensors are not the energy efficiency panacea the BCA would have us think. Engaging people is more effective and far cheaper. (apart from being non profitable for SE! :D)
     
    Matthew, Jul 4, 2012
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  6. simont

    simont

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    Thanks for the help Nick. I have tested it using the 5751L PIR and it works as expected.

    One thing I did notice in the Toolkit Application Log, after the switch turns the group on, then when the PIR first detects movement it also sends a Group On event.


    Cheers,
    Simon.
     
    simont, Jul 5, 2012
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  7. simont

    Newman

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    That is normal behaviour. This is the mechanism the PIR uses to cancel any timers running in any other devices on the network, allowing it's own internal timer to take over.
     
    Newman, Jul 6, 2012
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  8. simont

    paulw11

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    I have put similar, but slightly different functionality into my kid's bedrooms and it might meet your requirements.

    I have two groups, one controlled by the switch and the other controlled by the PiR. These are combined using AND logic on the relay.

    This allows you to have the light on or off when the room is occupied (controlled by the switch) but after a period of no movement the light turns off. If the room is occupied and the light goes off, all you need is a small movement to bring it back on - you don't need to go to the switch.

    Although this doesn't deactivate the switch (as per your requirements) it achieves much the same functionality and doesn't require you to go back to the switch to reactivate the light if you're just being still - are these offices or meeting rooms? If so you can sometimes get annoying sensor timeouts if people aren't moving



    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2012
    paulw11, Jul 18, 2012
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  9. simont

    simont

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    Paul,

    The job is at a school. There is not enough logic groups on a relay to follow your suggestion. The advice from Nick works perfectly and only needs one group per room.


    Simon.
     
    simont, Jul 19, 2012
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