Suggested changes to new Tech Support Application Notes

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by JohnC, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. JohnC


    Apr 6, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Hi - would someone please pass this message on to who ever writes the Application Notes. Comments specifically apply to these 2 :

    06-036-1 DALI Gateway Wiring Requirements

    06-037-1 DSI Gateway Wiring Requirements

    Note that I have commented here in the formum for all to learn from.


    The control cable connections to DALI or DSI ballasts are *NOT* polarity dependant. It would appear that the text in the Application Notes has been (incorrectly) based on the App Note for 0-10V Analogue controlled ballasts, which ARE polarity dependant.

    The above 2 documents should be edited accordingly.


    I suggest replacing all reference to DALI or DSI "Ballasts" and "Fluorescent Dimming" with the term "Equipment" instead.

    That's because DSI and DALI don't necessarily imply 'ballast' any more than C-Bus necessarily implies 'dimmer'... there's other things that use these protocols apart from just Fluorescent Ballasts !

    For example, you can get ELV Transformers, Wall Switches, Sensors, etc, etc that operate directly from and use the DALI Protocol. The C-Bus Gateways are suitable to operate these devices as well as fluorescent ballasts

    The above 2 documents should be edited accordingly.


    I would also suggest that the reference to WINDIM4.0 software be clarified / removed. As far as I know, WinDim is a proprietary software from TridonicAtco and Zumtobel, yet there are many other manufacturers of DALI equipment (eg: Advance, Osram, Philips, Vossloh Schwabe, etc).

    Further, most DALI equipment can be programmed using a method similar to C-Bus's Learn Mode. The way that the particular equipment can be programmed is NOT necessarily the same between brands, and I am unsure if it is even possible to program an Osram DALI ballast with Tridonic's WinDim software.

    I suggest a better way of wording would be something like :

    Most DALI equipment needs to be programmed prior to use. The installer should contact the respective equipment manufacturer for instructions and/or software. The level of complexity of the programming required will depend on the particular site's requirements.

    This passes the responsibility of making the DALI equipment operational over to the people who supply it.

    As an aside, as far as I am aware C-Bus cannot program DALI equipment, therefore as far as I know C-Bus cannot (individually) control a DALI ballast that has not yet been programmed with a DALI Unit Address. Therefore, get DALI network working first, then program C-Bus to tell it what to do.


    I don't think that it's made particularly clear in the Application Note that DSI is NOT an addressable control system. It is simply a hard-wired light level control wiring - all devices connected to a particular output channel (of a DSI Interface) will dim up and down together.

    Therefore, if you want 10 groups of lights you need to hard-wire the groups back to the C-Bus DSI Gateway Interface and connect each to an output channel. If you want to change the members of the groups, then you need to change the physical wiring (it cannot be done in software).

    I suiggest that at least the wiring diagram be modified to make it clear that all the DSI devices connected to C-Bus Gateway channel 1 will dim together, same for Ch 2 etc.

    Also - it must be said that DSI is NOT a format "used by many electronic ballasts for dimming". Rather, DSI is an outdated (deprecated) system that was *ONLY* ever licenced from Tridonic / Zumtobel (basically the same company, different names). The wording of the C-Bus Application Note should be changed, as it implies that DSI is a widely used dimming control format, when in fact it is a proprietary protocol unique to only 1 manufacturer.


    I hope that helps - I typed it in a bit of a rush so it may contain some detail errors. Therefore you should verify my comments with the respective equipment manufacturers, but I think you'll find that at least most of what I've written is correct.

    Cheers, John

    PS: Please also see my other post here titled "For Info - the difference between Analogue, DSI and DALI" for more info
    JohnC, Aug 3, 2006
    leko4u likes this.
  2. JohnC


    Feb 15, 2017
    Likes Received:
    Documents still read the same.
    leko4u, Jun 5, 2022
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