Should I install CBUS in 2025? Self build.

Hi all,

I installed C-Bus back in 2010 as part of a home build project. Honestly, I learned almost everything I know from this forum—it made the process surprisingly smooth. The retail value of the kit I used would have topped £30k, but I sourced most of it on eBay (a lot of it nearly new), and had only one failure—my own fault with a dimmer unit.

I’m now converting a barn into three properties—one will be our family home, the other two will be serviced accommodation.

I’ve looked at Shelly, Home Assistant, and similar platforms, and while they’re great for certain things, I still feel that for core lighting, a solid, wired bus system is the right answer. After about 6 hours of reading today, I’ve come to the view that C-Bus is still fit for purpose, and I can add Home Assistant on top for secondary automation.

I’ve got a few questions I’d really appreciate your thoughts on:


1. Switches – has anything changed?
Aside from Saturn Zen and the now dated DLT's, are there any new C-Bus switch styles I’ve missed since my original install? 15 years is a long time for no real aesthetic update…

2. Has C-Bus left the UK?
I read a post from @Conformist suggesting C-Bus has exited the UK market. That doesn’t necessarily bother me from a technical standpoint—but it might limit good pricing (especially second-hand). Back in 2009 I was buying 8-channel relays and dimmers for around £100 each on eBay. Still some to be had, but often look battered!

3. KNX vs C-Bus under SpaceLogic?
Schneider now brands both KNX and C-Bus under "SpaceLogic." Is this a sign they’re gradually moving focus toward KNX as the main system going forward?

All thoughts, even if they include have you considered x as an alternative.

Thanks!

 

I'm providing only a quick reply...
-New switches include temperature and humidity sensors as well as tri-colour LEDs

-I tend to stick to what I know... C-Bus over KNX. Higher powers in Schneider Electric have been trying to suggest KNX is the same as C-Bus for ages and has pressed to migrate to it. The simple fact that a whole new range of dimmers and relays indicates that there will not be any change in the foreseeable future

-We (my installation business and some of the guys I started mentoring... who are better than me at this now) started using Homebridge/Homekit some time ago with C-Bus and in the last 18 months moved to Home Assistant. We built controllers using Raspberry Pi's and have been looking at any weak points to provide a robust solution. We use the C-Bus Hat for Raspberry Pi (from Goodwood Electronics) to give a direct interface into the Pi. With all of this in mind, we've worked to eliminate the points of failure and are in the process of building a controller using a Raspberry Pi compute module that will have a C-Bus interface that talks directly... no CNI and we've also ditched CGate which was proving unreliable and sluggish. Previously (using C-Gate), boot time to get all C-Bus states and levels took about 55 seconds. Now... 8 seconds! No issues with losing comms to remote CNI's and the ability to reset that lock-up of the interface where you need to disconnect from C-Bus to reset. We've also gone from SD card to SSD which is a known potential point of failure (although we've never actually experienced this in the 20+ systems we have 'in the wild'). We were only going to use for our own customers but we have decided to commercialise this as a product due to recend conversations with other installers and users. This is the first time this has been mentioned. I don't have a timeframe on this yet as we need to make sure we lock down our IP before we make it available beyond our own (end-user) customers.

 

Small house - no
Medium house - no (use normal switches or clispal wiser with zigbee)
Large house (dynalite)

no CBUS, no KNX

 

Errr... Did you miss that he's in the UK?
No way I'd be recommenedning Wiser with Zigbee...
Dynalite? Really? On a C-Bus Forum?
So you're saying don't use C-Bus on any size house?

 

I’ve integrated all three systems for about 10 years now and based on my CBUS fault record. Dynalite is by far the best option. Not to mention CBUS is made in china where dynalite is made here in Australia ☺️

Zigbee is great for small homes ☺️

 

Tend to agree, Dynalite would be my #1 Choice, the new Revolution series switches and Revolution Displays look great, though there have been a few price hikes on Dynalite gear recently which makes it pricy. The operation of Areas, Presets and Channel level control is simple but powerful and most units will host tasking for more complex operations.

C-Bus is still fine, though the current software situation is painful, and from what others have mentioned appears to be exiting the UK, or difficult to source. There's Saturn Series switches, Zen Series switches and the EDLT replacement for the dlt.

DALI Systems such as Zen Control or Rapix are also appealing now days. Not sure on their presence in the UK.

KNX is also fine however a little more involved to program and no easy way to retrieve the programming back out of the units should the original project file be lost, but much more flexibility in terms of suppliers, products, models and devices. plenty to choose from and open protocol so plenty of integration.

Really it comes down to your budget and what you like the look of on the wall in terms of switches, as this is what most people will be interacting with daily. All systems will achieve the same functionality one way or another.

I work with all these systems and others aswell

 

I don't understand why being made in China is an issue when it comes to system performance.
I agree with Diggerz that the programming software is shit (ATM) but that has no impact on performace (like where it's made doesn't either)

 

It’s just one example. I guess when you’re deciding to use a lot of capital investment in a new system you’ll look at every trait and flaw. I personally do find the build quality much better with dynalite. I also have never replaced a dynalite relay due to channels fussing open/closed.

 

Thank you to everyone for the great discussion—it's helped a lot. My main goal is to build smart, not harder. I’ve watched a friend build with HA and DIY IoT, it's his all-consuming hobby. His house is a nightmare when he travels, the family have to call for support!

I'll sleep on it for the next week, but I think I've decided I will go cBus again.

The mention of Wiser brought back memories—my first encounter of the brand name use, was the Gen 1 Wiser controller for C-Bus with the bolted on access point! Out of the entire property spend, it was hands-down the worst purchase. I usually hoard tech gear, but that one after too much effort squeeze any value, went straight in the bin.

@LightingControlProgrammer – I appreciate the Dynalite tip. and @Diggerz for ZenControl and Rapix. All new to me. Why do Zen Control units look like cBus?

@Conformist – Hard to believe, but I remember your posts from 15 years ago! The quality of discussion here is still a big reason I keep coming back. It’s miles ahead of the noise on other DIY forums. I did consider Loxone, which looks good on paper, but its closed installer model and limited software access put me off—especially long-term.

I know C-Bus and its software well (though I’ve read much grumbling about the current versions—why is that?). For someone juggling a full-time job, family, and a new build, there’s real value in sticking with what I know. Plus, there’s still a reasonable supply of used gear which can cut costs to a fraction of new. My DMs are open if anyone’s selling!

The new build is ~30m long. I’m decentralising relays to four locations, and looking at DALI to further reduce power cable runs, although I found DALI to solve the need for trailing edge dimming for most LEDs. I hadn’t seriously considered DALI before, but there’s a glut of ballasts on eBay from commercial refits. If I understand it right, one C-Bus DALI controller can handle 64 ballasts? Should I DALI or is it a rabbit hole of problems vs using the newer DIN dimmers that can do both leading and trailing edge? Though I doubt I'll find these used.

@Conformist – Looking forward to hearing more about your Pi-based HA controller and how you’re integrating and controlling C-Bus scenes.

 

What commercial product will you be offering...

 

We are still installing cbus every week on the uk and have a good supply of cbus. We can also get rapix and integrate with cbus.
We also use a lot of Dali for led lighting.

if you need any help in the uk just let us know as we cover the whole of the uk.
Ben