Seeking advice where to start for new C-bus project

Hi all, just joined the forum, have been reading for the last few months.

I'm wanting some advice on where to start, who to talk to about scoping and designing and potentially commisioning a c-bus system for a new home that I will be building in the near future.

I'm looking for a system to provide lighting control, blind control, HVAC, and a HT integration, and potentially any other things that I can be convinced make good sense.

c-bus seems like a good solution, some of the the tactile components appeal to me particularly, but I'm having a hard time scoping out what kind of budget what I want costs, how complicated it is, whether it is overkill, whether the budget means that I do a partial job upfront and complete it later down the track, whether part of it I DIY etc.

I guess I'm looking for competent, reasonable people who are willing to walk me through what I'm looking for, and who can offer everything from a system design through to a full turnkey solution.

Is this the best place to start?

I've always believed that forums like this are usually at the forefront of people passionate about getting the most from a product with the least waste.

anyway, looking forward to any replys posted here or email on [email protected]

thanks,

Adam

 

There are many people here that would be interested in assisting you (myself included) where are you based? Suburb/State.

 

Good point.

I'm located in Melbourne. I'll be building in the northern suburbs (Macleod)

 

If you want to make the forum interesting you can bounce the ideas off the internet. There is more than one way to solve an application and you may fint it interesting.

Also, CEDIA and Infobuild are both around the corner. One is in Sydney and the other is in Brisbane.

You would meet many interesting people there.

 

Lets find out! How about posting some details about your house? Size, number of rooms, names of rooms, AV requirements, family size and makeup? Would be a good thread to explore what is possible/recommended/discouraged..

 

Sure, lets do that.

its a 35-ish square house incl garage. (325 sqm)

sloping block (slopes up from the front)

ground floor:
entry/stairway (open to first floor)
study/guest bedroom
home theater
bathroom
garage

first floor:
lounge/living room w/large window
kitchen w/butler's pantry
dining/meals
master bed with WIR & ensuite (ensuite has sep toilet)
small balcony
bedroom 2
bedroom 3
bathroom
toilet
laundry

large-ish outdoor undercover area + med size courtyard garden

currently me and my partner, this is will eventually be a family home.

a/v requirements:

for video I have pretty stringent requirements so will probably do something outside an automation system, probably using matrix switchers (some of which I already have).

for audio I want to distribute digital audio rather than analogue. are there any decent systems that accommodate this?

would like video and audio distribution to all bedrooms, HT, living/lounge & maybe outdoor area.

I have a floorplan but I'm not all that keen to post it on a public forum, at least not in its current form. I'll try and think of a way to post it in a way that makes me feel more comfortable. It is a custom design.

 

Let me add to your comments by pointing out that video and music distribution has taken a dramatic twist with 1000GB file servers for $500, 1000MHZ LAN and MP4/MP3 players.

All you do now is feed the server from any workstation and then view / download whatever movies / music you want over a LAN to the server in a few minutes.

All new music appliances now support iTunes server protocol. There is almost no purpose or need for DVD players and CD players. You wire your pre-amp into a node that talks to the server.

With internet radio and 11,000 stations .... there is no real need for AM/FM either.

So media switches are overkill because content sharing is about $3000 for a whole house and 4 TV nodes. Other nodes can be WiFi radio and so on.

 

With regard to interior lighting, bear in mind that WC, laundry and garage the light switch is optional and usually can be paired with exhaust for WC and garage. Same applies to closets and built-ins which need interior lighting strips for better comfort in use.

I often wonder what the benefit is to put light switches in tight spaces - these work extremely well with motion sensors.

We use the garage, WC and laundry with motion sensors. We use the shower with auto-exhaust based on a motion sensor.

The alarm system arming/disarming, outdoor lighting and garage door are operated from my rear view mirror or front door key-fob.

Factor in some elements for garage door such as
- auto close
- quiet roller kit

Most people have never heard of a noise reduction system for garage doors. They dont add much to the cost.

 

Honestly, at the moment video and audio are not what I'm looking for in terms of automation. I'm a bit eccentric with that stuff and pretty much know where I'm heading with it.

what I'm looking for is more or less everything else, things like lighting, hvac, blinds, security etc etc

 

this is the floorplan.

re the motion sensors. I think this is a great idea. I've seen this before in some kitchen displays, and my office (which has a ton of cbus/amx automation) uses cbus motion sensors to manage the office lighting and conference rooms - very cool.

 

The moral of the story is that you are more likely to need a Cat 6 in the future than a Monster Cable. The days of running balanced cable in a house are nearly over.

 

I agree with that for the most part. Currently I have both in the current house, cat5 and balanced cable.

Honestly I use the balanced cable more now but agree that this is changing. Most of the video I watch is HD (offair,HDDVD), and upconverted cable TV. There's still not a good solution to distribute this over the LAN that I am aware of. For the captured HD streams that I have, the LAN solution is the right one. So as I see it it is still a mix of both. If something comes up in the near future then I'll still have a chance to implement.

 

What sort of cable are you guys referring to when you say 'Balanced"

At my school cat5/5e/6 etc is for balanced signals and cable such as coax is considered unbalanced.

Cheers

Rohan

 

We are in a similar situation. Currently building a new home and have mainly focused on the automation of the lighting / blinds / hvac rather than the audio / video side.

At the same time though we are keen on distributed audio and video so we are going overboard with the cabling of the house. All rooms will have at least 3 available Cat5/6 cables, 2 RG06 and a pair of speaker wires for ceiling speakers. I had initially wanted to install the Nuvo Grand Concerto system but struggled to come to grips with the $15K price tag and still didnt have the "integrated" digital audio streaming capabilities.

With the video side of the equation it becomes even more complex, especially for the distribution of HD video signal. This solution is still to be determined. But keeping a keen look out on the Apple TV devices that are currently version 1 but definately look great for video. Otherwise Foxtel iQ boxes everywhere.

On the CBus side of things we are going to use motion sensors in basically all the utility areas. What I consider a utility area is:

Bathrooms
Walk In Robes
Laundry
Pantry
Toilets
Closet Space
Garage Areas

For the rest of the house we are going down the path of a CTC in the main informal living areas - kitchen, meals and family room. Whilst the rest of the rooms will have Saturn switches. The number and configuration yet to be determined. As I dont know the full capabilities of the CTC I was also hoping to tie into it the video feed from the AIPhone intercom system but not sure how successful that will be or even possible.

Nonetheless have committed to the CBus scenario now so its going in regardless as all the gear is awaiting installation

At the end of the day I guess, as pointed out by Tobex, it is easier to saturate the whole house with cable at the moment rather than try to do it once it is complete or even plastered up.

Regards
Arthur

 

You may think me reckless but most of the cabling i did was through flexible tubing after the plaster was done. I am not a big fan of hidden cables. I like it all to come out if it has to. Only ducting can do that.

For HD signals LAN devices are the new emerging standard for server based entertainment. AppleTV is only one such example and there is going to be a flood of these with 12 months.

for now we are working on optical fibre HDTV and speakers. That is why I speculate in favour of being able to rewire.

I allocate a small "unused" space in a closet or near a manhole and junction the main and sub areas in these management cabinets. I run trunk / bulk to the distribution point and then patch to the room devices.

One of these days I will get around to documenting these methods for the use of the C-Bus forum. These are simple ways to cable bedrooms to a junction and then tie it all back to cable runs through duct. It generally looks like a thick branch which then breaks out into branches from the closet.

Overall I avoid running one massive bundle back to "Node 0" unbroken.

There are dozens of methods and mine is only one. When I get some decent photos together i can share some of wiring concepts.

 

Schools find ways to use cable that I would never have imagined.

 

Ok, but the question still stands, what sort of cable are you referring to as "Balanced"?

You've got me totally confused

Cheers

Rohan

 

Proper balanced audio cable.

 

As in professional mic-style cable? as typically fitted off with cannon/XLR connections, with a Hot, Cold, and earth/drain wire?

 

Yes that sounds familiar.