Replacing 5104D5 with 5103D5/5106D5

It looks like I may have some faulty 5104D5 professional dimmers to replace.

What are the differences between the old 5104D5 and new 5103D5LP/5106D5LP apart from channel count? (We have several where all 4 channels are in use so it'll be mostly 6-ch replacements.)

I'm interested to know what the real differences are from my point of view as an installer, but also what selling points they have as an upgrade to the customer.

 

I just checked the dimensions and they're not going to fit where the existing 5104D5's are, so I think that rules them out anyway.

Looks like I'll stick with the 5104D5's for now after all....

I'd still like to know how the new pro and arch dimmers compare with the old arch dimmers though, again both from my point of view as an integrator and from the end user's point of view.

 

The new dimmers come under a banner of dimmers called "Infinity Dimmers", which you can read about here, with the specific bits of interest being on page 13.

The Infinity Professional dimmers effectively supersede the old Professional dimmers. They are leading edge dimmers. In terms of Toolkit configuration, they're a bit like a 12-channel DIN Universal dimmer, so there's nothing really new there. When compared to the existing Professional dimmers they have:

• Much greater flexibility in terms of channel counts and ratings with 3A, 5A, 10A, 16A and 20A versions with 3, 6 or 12 channels.
• Individual field-replaceable channel cards
• Can mix channel card ratings within a unit
• Bypass switch per channel in case of channel damage (bypasses dimmer card)
• Provision for RCD's and MCB's within the unit
• Thermal wind-back if channel card gets too hot
• Improved immunity to voltage fluctuations and mains signalling
• Individual phase supply monitoring
• Can mix iron-core and LE-compatible electronic trannies on a channel
• Longer channel rise time to reduce filament "singing"
• 3 C-Bus connections

The Infinity Architectural dimmers take this concept quite a big step further. The Toolkit UI is quite different for these dimmers, so it's worth a look. They take everything the Infinity Professional dimmers have and they add:

• Both Universal and Leading Edge channel cards
• The ability to have a "ballast" channel card with Dali Broadcast/DSI/0-10 and/or Relay output
• Unswitched emergency lighting output on each channel
• Three separate prioritised emergency signalling inputs
• Backup generator signal input
• Can set a channel scene in response to the loss of C-Bus
• Can run a Halogen Clean Up scene for a set duration to "clean up" halogens that have had the maximum level reduced to extend their life
• Channels can be controlled from either C-Bus or DMX (and configurable transitions between the two control options)
• Pre-defined and user-configurable channel dimming curves
• Can internally store up to 128 scenes
• Can cross-fade between those scenes
• Scenes stored in the unit can use fade times that are independent of the C-Bus ramp rates (If you want a 21hr, 14min, 20sec fade time.. no problem)
• Fan/motor kickstart
• Channel RMS voltage limiting (limits conduction time, not peak value)
• Ability to remotely disable channels over C-Bus (4 selectable masks)
• Power-up recovery options for both level and delay
• Diagnostic logging

I'm sure there's other stuff but that should be enough to give you a feel for where the 2 units sit.

 

Phew, quite a lot of improvements!

Most of them sadly wasted on us - I think the arch dimmers were only ever used here because of the higher currenr taing compared with the DIN rail optons and we don't use any of the improved functionality, but that said I can see the benefit of swapping out failed channels and DSI (can't see how DALI fits from an addressing point of view though, and it's an expensive alternative to an existing DSI module), and also the option for "universal" rather than just leading edge.

Stuff like improvements in filament singing might be a selling point too. Does this have implications for lamp life or energy usage?

If I have several arch dimmers and replace some with the newer ones, will there be any noticable difference between the two types in operation? (Eg I assume that they'd both dim to the same output for a given C-Bus group level?)

 

The DALI mode for the Infinity Architectural ballast card works by sending DALI broadcast commands. That means that every DALI ballast on the line will perform that command, irrespective of whether or not it's been addressed. It is not a substitute for the C-Bus DALI gateway, which can individually address ballasts; rather it allows a DALI line to be controlled by the ballast card as if it were a dimmer channel. The end result is very similar to DSI.

Incidentally, some of the ballasts that Tridonic sell that they label as DSI they have actually moved across to DALI, but they still label them as DSI, and they only respond to DALI broadcast commands, not native DSI commands. The end result is the same, i.e. every ballast connected to that DALI/DSI line responds together, but the underlying communication is different and any 3rd party equipment, such as C-Bus gear, needs to be selected accordingly.

This is primarily for large filaments often found in large architectural or theatre type lighting. I haven't seen any evidence of the impact of the longer rise time on lamp life and it won't affect the energy consumption. The thing that improves the lamp life is the soft-start system, not the rise time.

If you replace the old dimmer with an Infinity Professional dimmer the dimmer curves will be similar, but not exactly the same. If you use an Infinity Architectural dimmer you can, of course, tune it to match the old Architectural precisely.

 

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't aware of this, useful to know. We mostly only get involved in the control side and leave the selection of ballasts to someone else, but I can see an interesting debate after we agree to use DSI and it turns out that it requires a DALI interface...