remove minder & upgrade

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by omega99, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. omega99

    omega99

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    have 7 x 5104r 4 channel relay units
    2 x 5100ps power supply - 1 redundant
    and minder( nothing connected to it other than c/bus & battery)

    what do I need to remove minder from the equation & will the rest be compatible with the new equipment
     
    omega99, Jan 2, 2009
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  2. omega99

    ______.

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    Why are you wanting to remove the minder unit?
    Are you having problems with the system or do you just want to upgrade to new gear?

    If you remove the minder you will need to replace it with a PAC or Touch screen to control the what ever minder was doing. You will need to get a copy of the minder program to check what it is doing.

    The old equipment will work fine with any new gear you add to the network.
     
    ______., Jan 2, 2009
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  3. omega99

    omega99

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    that the problem tyrying to find the minder program to fix a problem.

    they have 1 key input that I have found that is supposed to turn of certain number of light off & leave others on but it does nothing.

    tried the latest cbus toolkit s/ware to no avail!
     
    omega99, Jan 3, 2009
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  4. omega99

    darrenblake

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    Replacing Homeminder

    Hi,

    Dependant on the age of the gear.

    Are the 4 channel relays 5104RVF - Black box similar to the old Clipsal high powered 240v dimmers, or are they the old ones in a cream 4CC4 style enclosure??

    Some of the very old C-Bus gear is not supported by Toolkit.

    Is the Minder a version 1 or Mark II controller???

    As far as i am aware, most Mark 1's are certainly past their use by date, but there are still a few Mark II's around.

    If you can get you hands on the Homeminder file, and you have the software you may be able to reload the controller and get it running again. you will also need the 4 digit code to unlock the program file.

    If all else fails, you will need to re-engineer the project from scratch. Dependant on the site, this can be either realatively easy, or monumentally difficult. This will dependant on the original functionality, and trying to work out what the original programming did.

    If the controller is still functioning, but you would like to ugrade it anyway, try running an application log on Toolkit. It may help you in working out what buttons, snesors etc trigger what.
     
    darrenblake, Jan 3, 2009
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  5. omega99

    omega99

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    the 5104R are the black box type
    the 5100PS power supplies are the 4cc4 box type( 1 of the power supplies must be for backup as the power to it is not turned on)
    The minder I have attached 2 photos of the unit & wiring diagram - how do you tell if its mark 1 or 2?

    The minder program seems to be a scarce as rocking horse ****!!
     

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    omega99, Jan 4, 2009
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  6. omega99

    omega99

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    did the picture come out all right, they don't seem to show up on my machine correctly??
     
    omega99, Jan 5, 2009
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  7. omega99

    Lucky555

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    That my friend is a Minder Mk I.

    The Minder Mk I is really useful , , , , , , , , , , , really useful for taking up space in the garbage bin.

    Don't spend any more time on this - straight over to the PAC you should go.

    The install is obviously years and years old - sounds like they might have got their money's worth. Unless you have lots and lots of time on your hands move on... A bit like asking a mechanic to get a 1972 Torana up to today's spec...
     
    Lucky555, Jan 5, 2009
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  8. omega99

    omega99

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    so would the 5104R relays, 5100PS power supplies & the 5031N be compatable with the new system.
     
    omega99, Jan 6, 2009
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  9. omega99

    Lucky555

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    No problems - all native C-bus equipment is compatible. Support in Toolkit may be an issue so leave the group addresses in the units as is and move on from there.

    I have black box 5104RVF's in my place still going strong ;)
     
    Lucky555, Jan 6, 2009
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  10. omega99

    rhamer

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    I strongly disagree, if the hardware is working fine, then that device is as good as any other, especially since it is already in place.

    You may have to replace it for other reasons, but sweeping statements such as that are plain wrong.

    Regards

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Jan 6, 2009
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  11. omega99

    Lucky555

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    That's the trick - omega99 has no way of knowing if the unit is working fine, he won't be able to de-program or re-program it. Once he starts adding other equipment and the programming that goes with it how will he know he is not using group addresses that interact with this old Minder. In the future if there is strange behavior on the network could it be the the old Minder ??? I hope it is not a customers premises, usually not a good idea to leave a customer with an install that seems to have a mind of its own, (mind - Minder get it) :)

    There is a better than even chance that the old Minder is sitting there doing absolutely nothing - other than wasting power of course.

    It might have sounded like a sweeping statement but I recommend it is still good advice.

    You might strongly disagree, it is possible to strongly disagree and still be WRONG ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2009
    Lucky555, Jan 6, 2009
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  12. omega99

    PSC

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    I agree with Lucky, as good as the Minder box is / was, sometimes you just need to move on and stop living in the past, this is the 90's man, get with the times... :cool:
     
    PSC, Jan 7, 2009
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  13. omega99

    ICS-GS

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    Hey PSC, careful of the Y2K bug!!! the automated world is going to be on its knees!:eek:
     
    ICS-GS, Jan 7, 2009
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  14. omega99

    omega99

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    Yes is a commercial customers install, so I have to wait until I replaced all the none functioning emergency lights 20 of them - I bet they never tested them since they where installed.

    I'm going to try a reset of the cbus network to see if any funtionality comes back, if no then I''l remove the minder & fit a 5500paca depending on what the customer wants or if they want just on/off then a 5500pcu
     
    omega99, Jan 7, 2009
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  15. omega99

    PSC

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    Hey you're right, spread the word! :p
     
    PSC, Jan 7, 2009
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  16. omega99

    PSC

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    You're doing yourself and the client a massive favour. If you continue to try and use the existing Minder you will waste large amounts of time just trying to workout what the previous installer has done, costing you or the client a lot of money.
     
    PSC, Jan 7, 2009
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  17. omega99

    Ashley W

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    I think that is the key, the amount of time (and of course the money that costs) in working out what is going on. Sometimes it is cheaper to just replace something then stuff around too much.

    Having said that Rhamer is also right that it shouldn't be thrown out because it is old.
     
    Ashley W, Jan 8, 2009
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  18. omega99

    Ashley W

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    Actually have a question myself. Does anyone know if there are any keypads other then the 5207's and the LED type that work with Minder (MKII)?
     
    Ashley W, Jan 8, 2009
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  19. omega99

    omega99

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    Minder MKI - what is the purpose of the battery. If the battery was dead & there was a power outage would all the programming be lost?
     
    omega99, Jan 9, 2009
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  20. omega99

    Lucky555

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    Don't worry, I still have an old Minder (MkII) chugging away at my place - using it for I/O (low level interface) between C-Bus and Tecom Challenger worlds.

    I hope my wife agrees with not throwing stuff out just because it is old - if she didn't there would be a big pile of my stuff out the front next council clean up day. Come to think of it, I would be thrown on top of the heap as well :p
     
    Lucky555, Jan 9, 2009
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