Problem Updating Physical Unit of DLT's

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by Legenderry, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Legenderry

    Legenderry

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    I have just got access to my C-bus network via PC USB interface and was trying to move some of the group locations showing on my DLT's. This is a newly acquired house and I would like to tidy up the lighting network but every time I try and do a change and save it to the physical unit I get an error.

    I have tried all 4 DLT's and all the same story.
    I can do changes on all of the NEO's without a problem
    Any ideas on what I can do?

    Using Toolkit V1.10.5

    Cheers

    Derry
     
    Legenderry, Jul 30, 2009
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  2. Legenderry

    Conformist

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    What error do you get?
     
    Conformist, Jul 30, 2009
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  3. Legenderry

    Legenderry

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    The Error Message States it is a "Error 20037"
    And message says "Unit failed to save to the physical Unit"
    It gets about 10% through the saving and then this window pops up.


    thanks

    Derry
     

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    Legenderry, Jul 30, 2009
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  4. Legenderry

    daniel C-Busser Moderator

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    Hi Legenderry,

    First check the burden, voltage, etc on your network. It's possible on a marginal network for only some units to be programmable.

    After that's been ruled out you may have to ring Tech Support, and have handy the exact unit types and versions that are not working, and a copy of your toolkit.ccl log file.
     
    daniel, Jul 31, 2009
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  5. Legenderry

    Legenderry

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    Thanks Daniel.
    Will give your thoughts a go on the weekend.

    cheers
     
    Legenderry, Jul 31, 2009
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  6. Legenderry

    Legenderry

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    Daniel,
    Please see the picture of the current network voltage, burden etc
    Can you see a problem with the current network (apart from it saying that I need a "network burden")
    I have one but not sure where to place it as I have no available spare plugs?

    Any ideas??

    Thanks Derry
     

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    Legenderry, Aug 5, 2009
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  7. Legenderry

    Darpa

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    Your network impedance is way too high. If you are unable to easily plug in a hardware burden, then enable a software burden in one of your units, probably the PCI itself if you can't access any other units on the network.
     
    Darpa, Aug 5, 2009
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  8. Legenderry

    Legenderry

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    Thanks for the reply....
    Have added the Software burden to the PCI unit as suggested but the impedance did not change?
    Was it supposed to.....

    What else can I try or how can I add physical burden?

    cheers
     
    Legenderry, Aug 9, 2009
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  9. Legenderry

    Newman

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    After turning on the software burden in the PCI, did the network start communicating reliably? If you enabled the software burden, and the Status tab of the UI for that unit shows it as enabled, then it is enabled.

    The network impedance shown in Toolkit does not automatically update to take into account of the enabled/disabled status of a network burden. It is the Impedance of the network assuming that no burdens are enabled. This will be changed in a future release of Toolkit so that the enabled/disabled status of software burdens is taken into account.

    The Impedance value shown in Toolkit is not a physical measurement of the network, but a calculation of network impedance based on the units it sees on the network.

    Re-test your network once you have confirmed that the software burden is enabled and let us know the results.
     
    Newman, Aug 10, 2009
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  10. Legenderry

    Legenderry

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    Newman,
    Everything is working OK (small problem happened during the check)

    Originally I only wanted to change the layout of the DLT (change key 2 to key 7) which I couldn't do because of the writing to physical unit problem.

    Once I added software burden and did the change almost all of the DLT labels changed to the actual group numbers.
    Lucky I had a xls sheet with each group No. and the actual device. So all I had to do was rename ALL of the DLT labels and every was sweet.
    No sure why this problem / change happened but was an easy fix.:confused:
    Not sure how these DLT units were labeled originally.:confused:

    Not to worry all fixed now:D

    Thanks to everyone for your valuable input
    YEAH !

    Cheers:cool:

    Derry
     
    Legenderry, Aug 11, 2009
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  11. Legenderry

    Cal

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    Hi all

    Newbie C-Bus enthusiast here - g'day.

    Recently moved into new home so am trying to learn as much as I can - have found a few training manuals online and have been reading this forum also.

    I've replied to this thread as I am having exactly the same issue that Legenderry was having and I am not sure why.

    My Network summary doesn't indicate I need a burden, and scanning and changing all of the non-DLT units has worked just fine. I'm not sure I have a physical/hardware burden as I am not sure what they look like but I don't think I do, so I guess either the network is big enough I don't need one, or I have a software burden (?where). It's just saving changes to the physical unit that won't work, and like Legenderry, it appears to save a small % and then fails with the same error message.

    Any assistance in solving this would be hugely appreciated.

    Cheers
    Cal
     

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    Cal, Jan 12, 2018
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  12. Legenderry

    NickD Moderator

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    That calculated impedance seems quite low for a relatively small number of units. Can you tell us what's on your network?

    You shouldn't need a burden with that many units.... if there is a software burden it could be in an output unit like a relay or dimmer, or in a system unit like bridge, CNI, PCI, touchscreen, PAC, etc.

    If you scan the network and then click the "Diagnostics" button in the network view, it can quickly check what's enabled where.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jan 15, 2018
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  13. Legenderry

    Cal

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    Hi Nick

    Thank you for the reply - much appreciated.

    My network is mostly for lighting, but there is control of a fireplace, interface with home security system, and control of ceiling/bathroom fans as well.

    Diagnostic scans (see attached) reveal the burden is activated in the interface between the security system and the cbus. However, this appears to be a hardware burden looking at what I can find out about it online and the cbus toolkit warns me that it's only active if the green led is flashing on the 'SIM' which I don't think it is. So there is every possibility that there is no hardware or software burden active.

    Any further information that would be of help?

    Any thoughts on what I can do to be able to change the DLTs as I would like?

    Much appreciated with thanks.

    Cheers
    Cal 2018-01-20 13.55.19.jpg
     

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    Cal, Jan 20, 2018
    #13
  14. Legenderry

    NickD Moderator

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    That all looks ok, and despite being enabled in firmware, the hardware jumper on the SIM is in the OFF position, so the burden is not actually active.

    What is unit 9 that failed to scan?

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jan 23, 2018
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  15. Legenderry

    Cal

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    Hi Nick

    Thanks again for coming replying.

    Not sure what unit 9 is. Same thing has once or twice shown up for unit 13.

    As for the hardware jumper being in the off position, I believe you and thank you for letting me know for sure that the hardware burden is not enabled. If you have the time - what was it you were seeing in the photo to show the jumper in the SIM is in the off position? I couldn't see a 'switch' and there were a few green LEDs on the board so wasn't sure if it wasn't one of them.

    Any ideas at this point on how I can actually get changes I make to the DLT units save to the physical unit?

    Thank you once again.

    Cheers
    Cal
     
    Cal, Jan 23, 2018
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  16. Legenderry

    NickD Moderator

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    Hi Cal,

    It's hard to say because it's not clear what the problem is... it doesn't seem like a network problem since you can save (I assume reliably) to other units... the DLT should not be much different.

    What parameters are you changing? Are you using the "save changes" option or trying to transfer the whole unit from the database to the network?

    If it IS a communication issue but it's only occurring on larger/longer transfers, then making incremental changes *might* work.

    The only other thing I can see that's unusual in your network is that you have way more power supplies than you need. The limit hasn't been exceeded, and it shouldn't make any difference, but if you have breakers on the DIN rail units, you could try switching a few off to see if it makes any difference with the scanning/saving.

    Failing that, you might have to try tech support or a local integrator.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jan 23, 2018
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  17. Legenderry

    Cal

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    Hi Nick

    Thanks once more :)

    I am not aware on how to save just the changes made to a unit - how do you do that?

    I am only aware of saying either 'apply' or 'save' either of which seems to save the whole unit.

    As you alluded - all other units save changes just fine, and with the DLT changes are saved to database, just not the physical unit. Tried to save to DB first and then transfer from database to network and then got the error message 45127 (attached). Tried including or excluding the DLT label save option with little effect.

    Tried disabling and re-enabling the burden on the unit where it is labelled on diagnostics as being present and the impedance changed to 1400 when disabled, and returned to 500 when enabled (thought this a bit odd especially as you wrote that the burden wasn't actually physically enabled from the photos I sent), but my reading says anywhere between 400-1500 ohms is OK for the network so both of these fit in this slot.

    Only other abnormality obvious is excessive clocks activated (read only have 3?) but can't see how this would effect saving changes to the DLT - can you?

    Not aware how I can isolate part power to the network unfortunately - no in cabinet breakers and not sure on main circuit board what heads to c-bus panels.

    Bit depressing really! I'm almost finished customising the network except for the DLTs...

    Thanks and any help appreciated as before to get the changes to save to the DLTs.
    Cheers
    Cal
     

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    Cal, Jan 28, 2018
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