Phillips Master LED Series

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by steve22537, Jul 20, 2010.

  1. steve22537

    steve22537

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    Has anyone looked at the Phillips Master LED Series of LED replacement lamps. I had a look at the GU10 7w lamp and was very impressed. Very bright, can retro fit into my existing GU10 fittings (say goodbye to my CFL's) and is dimmable via a leading edge dimmer. Phillips documentation claims "This replacement lamp provides the light intensity and quality produced by traditional GU10 halogen reflector lamps up to 50w." RRP of $56.00 but can get them for as low as $48.00. Don't know if they will assist as a replacement for a MR16 as they only do a 4w version (20w replacement)

    Steve
     
    steve22537, Jul 20, 2010
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  2. steve22537

    Cass

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    Just a question.

    G'day Steve,

    Are you dimming the LED's directly from a Cbus dimmer, or utilising a driver for the LED?

    Thanks :)
     
    Cass, Jul 20, 2010
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  3. steve22537

    steve22537

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    Hi Cass,

    Was intending to dim via the dimmer as they are dimmable with a "Leading Edge Dimmer"

    Steve
     
    steve22537, Jul 20, 2010
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  4. steve22537

    Cass

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    Hi Steve,

    LED's tested by us so far to be dimmed via cbus dimmer have not worked without the use of the driver usually supplied with the LED.

    Are yours dimmable without the use of a driver board?

    Just interested in some more information :)

    Thanks!
     
    Cass, Jul 20, 2010
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  5. steve22537

    steve22537

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    Hi Cass,
    These lamps are a 230v (which is going to be a problem in Perth), they state that they will run of a leading edge dimmer. I can't see the need for a LED driver as all this appears to be buit-in to the unit, I may be wrong....

    Steve
     
    steve22537, Jul 20, 2010
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  6. steve22537

    MikeB50Blue

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    Mike

    Hi Guys,

    Just looking into a problem i have with these Philips LED lamps you talk about.
    I assumed that all would work well, as they work with leading edge dimmers however at low settings around 20 or 30% output, the Lamps appear to flicker. Very faint, more from peripheral vision but noticable.
    I havent had a chance to play around with all the settings but after speaking to Philips, they have suggested that they may not work correctly with dimmers that dont have a zero lower end, IE "50 to 350VA dimmers". Have been looking around to see what the L5508D1A lower end is but cant find it at present.
    Any ideas?
    We have a project that has ?1500 worth of LEDs installed and is an issue at the moment.
    I have been asked by the client to look at this, (actually its in my bosses house) but am currently in a meeting so guess that further info may be required.
    Let me know if any of the above is not clear.
    Thanks in advance.
    Mike
     
    MikeB50Blue, Jul 20, 2010
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  7. steve22537

    ashleigh Moderator

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    A couple of points here:

    - All 2-wire (no neutral) dimmers have a "lower end"; this is the minimum load required by the dimmer to operate properly.

    - It seems common for many of the newer technologies to have flicker problems at the low end of dimming, this includes many dimmable CFLs and so far from what I have heard, many dimmable LEDs as well.

    The solution may be difficult, if there even is a solution. It may also be that you need to change the lamps.

    I'm aware this is not a very constructive comment but its pretty much the way things are, might as well be up-front about it.
     
    ashleigh, Jul 22, 2010
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  8. steve22537

    Don

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    Hopefully, in the very near future, these low-end flicker problems will go away.

    There's a good chance if manufacturers of mains-voltage LED lamps start using the new ICs made specifically for dimming LEDs, as the major players all include on-chip features ('bleeder' or triac holding circuitry) to provide sufficient current to keep the triac (or other circuitry) in the dimmer operating.

    This should make operation with most dimmers as smooth as silk (I have tested one of the controllers, and this feature does work well indeed, right down to minimum brightness).
     
    Don, Jul 22, 2010
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  9. steve22537

    MikeB50Blue

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    Mike

    Thanks for the input guys.
    Clears that up, just a shame when Phillips suggest that the lamps are dimmable, they should actually say, "dimmable up to a point as long as you have at least 8 lamps on the circuit"
    Thanks again.
    Best rgeards,
    Mike
     
    MikeB50Blue, Jul 22, 2010
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  10. steve22537

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Very true, Don, very true. Just need the lamp makers to come to the party :)
     
    ashleigh, Jul 22, 2010
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  11. steve22537

    Newman

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    Philips will be adding a 12W version to the MasterLED series later this year that is claimed to be dimmable. It will be interesting to see if they have improved the performance at low phase-control conduction angles.
     
    Newman, Jul 23, 2010
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  12. steve22537

    fleetz

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    I am surprised by the size of the compact downlight market and given for all intention purposes no competition iwith CFL's that there are not more bees around the honey pot. Seems strange given available technology it has taken so long to get LED dimmable lighting solution on the market.

    The more the merrier...and the sooner the better.

    Regards,

    Fleetz
     
    fleetz, Jul 23, 2010
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  13. steve22537

    Don

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    One can only hope that Philips gets it right.. especially considering that they (NXP Semiconductors) make at least two specialised LED dimmer ICs themselves with circuitry to cater for the holding current of triac dimmers.
     
    Don, Jul 23, 2010
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  14. steve22537

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Philips and NXP these days are loosely realted - Philips having spun off and sold off NXP as the semiconductor arm some time ago. I think they own a slab of it but its not 100%. Presumably this means Philips can buy semiconductors from wherever they like - NXP or elsewhere. Nevertheless, you'd think they would be able to get it right.
     
    ashleigh, Jul 24, 2010
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  15. steve22537

    fleetz

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    Jeez info on these LED lamps is hard to find. Who in Australia is selling them? Any useful links?

    Anyone dimmed these on a C-Bus dimmer channel? How many on the one channel???

    Appreciate any more info....thanks.

    Regards,

    Fleetz
     
    fleetz, Jul 27, 2010
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  16. steve22537

    steve22537

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    Philips Part No.
    MLED3W27GU1025D - 2700K - RTP $56.00
    MLED3W30GU1025D - 3000K - RTP $56.00
    MLED3W42GU1025D - 4200K - RTP $56.00

    Available from Lawrence & Hanson (Perth), Lamp Replacements

    Hope this helps, The link for the Philips web site doesn't work.
     

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    steve22537, Jul 27, 2010
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  17. steve22537

    fleetz

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    Cheers Steve,

    Yes it does:)

    Regards.

    Fleetz
     
    fleetz, Jul 27, 2010
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  18. steve22537

    dazzler72

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    Hi Guys
    FYI
    I have been runnig a c-bus lighting dimmer system in the house for about 4year now.
    I recently replaced our whole house (About 50 Globes) with Phillips 7w dimmable LED's and have then working with both the universal 4 channel dimmer (1 x L5504D2U) and the 8 channel dimmer (3 x L5508D1A).

    These are a few of my observations from the install.

    If you are using these Lamps with L5508D1A then a single lamp only per channel is required or you do receive a flicker effect.
    With only one Phillips 7W LED installed the dimming is from 60% to about 5% so it works pretty well.

    If you have more than one Phillips 7W LED installed on each Channel (as most of my channels do) then you do get instability when dimming and eventually a strobing effect.
    I currently have abut 12 channels with 4 x GU10 connections.
    To cure the strobing and flicker I installed a single 35W Gu10 Halogen on each channel that has more than one Phillips 7W LED installed

    Ie on a L5508D1A channel I have 4 x GU10 Lights installed, 3 x Phillips 7W LED + 1 x 35W GU10 Haolgen per channel.


    The universal Dimmer is a little trickier as by default it runs in T/E (trailing edge) mode
    I installed all 4 channels configured with 6 x Phillips LEDs on each channel and expected the uinversal dimmer to "autodetect" the leading edge requirement. unfortunatly this didnt happen and all I got was a constant strobing effect.
    Then I applied the same logic as per the L5508D1A with 5 x Phillips LED's + 1 x GU10 35W Halogen. and this stabilised the strobing and allowed the dimming to work from ~60% load down to ~5% as per L5508D1A.

    So everything is working fine but the the universal dimmer L5504D2U is still running in T/E Mode.
    Is there a way to manually set the Universal dimmer to Leading edge (L/E) mode as it doesnt detect that the Phillips 7W LED's have a leading edge dimmer requirement?
    Not that its causing any issues but I suspect the T/E mode may cause the Phillips globes fail earlier than the expected. They have only been in a month!
    Any help would be appreciated.
     
    dazzler72, Aug 19, 2010
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  19. steve22537

    Newman

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    The DIN universal dimmer is auto-detect only.
     
    Newman, Aug 19, 2010
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  20. steve22537

    Kevelec

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    Philips master led 7watt gu10 dimmable (240 volt)

    I have played about with thes and have found that if you set the minimum to 12 % on the dimmer and only hav a maximum of 3 7-watt lamps they seem to work fine o my test rig
    the other thing i have found that it is best to test each lamp one at a time on the lowest setting to see if it flickers as if one lamp flickers it seems to affect the othe onse
    i am just waiting now fo my 4 chanel dimmer to see if i can double the no. of lamps on one circuit
    Hope this helps some people out there

    Tried some aurora LEDWORLD dimmable 8.5 watt lamps on normal L5508D1A today and thees seem to dim down more than the philips with out the strobing effect (tried 4 lamps) the only problem they seem to have is they gett hotter when dimmed and give of a slight odder but they are cheaper than the philips going to get 4 more to see if they are ok with 8 on 1 channel
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2010
    Kevelec, Sep 9, 2010
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