New Inner Range "Integriti" system being rolled out now.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brendan Rogers, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    The long-awaited Integriti security, access control, and automation system is now being rolled out by Inner Range. :)

    You can find some preliminary images, a link to a brochure, and other information, on https://plus.google.com/100230119212743158910/posts

    We have been advised that while the Integriti's capabilities go well beyond that of the good old Concept 4000, Inner Range is still in the process of translating some Concept 4000 functions across into the (flashable) Integriti firmware. One such function that has not yet been translated is the C-Bus comms task :eek: - but i am assured that this should be translated across onto the Integriti firmware presently. :)

    The Integriti is best used with modified versions of the new Prisma terminals that have their firmware altered specifically for use with the Integriti panel.

    Disclosure: I do not work for Inner Range, but my company Clever Home does integrate Inner Range security systems with C-Bus as part of our home automation solutions.
     
    Brendan Rogers, Jul 14, 2012
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  2. Brendan Rogers

    DonB

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    Any change expected

    Hi Brendan,
    Do you know if the integration to C-Bus to be equal to or greater than capabilities of the Concept 4000?
     
    DonB, Jul 16, 2012
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  3. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    Hi DonB,

    The logical capability and flexibility of the Integriti Security Controller (ISC) itself is greatly improved over the Concept 4000. More types of pre-defined relationships are supported in the programming set up, plus the new ISC has a Scripted Logic capability. :)

    Details on the C-Bus comms task have not been released yet. From the little that I have heard, I would expect that the initial C-Bus comms task would be at least a direct translation of the existing C4000 C-Bus comms task. If Inner Range receive expressions of interest in adding particular features to their Integrity comms task, I believe they may take this into consideration.

    If there are particular new features that you would like to see added in the Integriti C-Bus comms task, now might be a good time to communicate these to Inner Range.
     
    Brendan Rogers, Jul 17, 2012
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  4. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    Actually, in addition to expressing interest in adding particular features to Integriti's C-Bus comms task, it might also be helpful to Inner Range for Systems Integrators to indicate their level of interest in using this integriti-C-Bus integration.

    There is now a complementary thread to this one on the Inner Range Forum at http://forum.innerrange.com/showthread.php?t=802

    :)
     
    Brendan Rogers, Jul 18, 2012
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  5. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    Ability to specify C-Bus Network through C-Bus Serial Interface from integriti panel.

    To start the suggestions going:

    I would like to be able to specify a C-Bus network other than the Local Network to which the C-Bus Serial Interface is attached, when setting up C-Bus Auxiliaries on the new Inner Range integriti panel.

    Question for Clipsal C-Bus Engineers: Is there any restriction in current or previous versions of the the C-Bus 9-pin D connector Serial Interface that would prevent a third party device like the new Inner Range integriti panel from being able to specify the target C-Bus network for each C-Bus command issued? Thanks in advance.
     
    Brendan Rogers, Jul 20, 2012
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  6. Brendan Rogers

    Don

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    Any C-Bus PC Interface can be used to broadcast messages destined to any network via C-Bus bridges.
     
    Don, Jul 20, 2012
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  7. Brendan Rogers

    rhamer

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    Just to be clear, are you saying that the PCI will only communicate to the network to which it is connected, however if that network is connected by appropriately configured bridges the messages will be passed accross to the far side network?

    Cheers

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Jul 23, 2012
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  8. Brendan Rogers

    Don

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    No.

    I'm saying that any PC Interface can issue a message to any network, including the one it is connected to and also including any other networks. This does NOT require ANY special configuration of bridges.

    I mentioned bridges only because they have to exist so that there is way that the messages can get to their destination network. :)
     
    Don, Jul 23, 2012
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  9. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    Summary of requests to be included in new integriti C-Bus comms task.

    Below is a summary of requests made so far to Inner Range, in addition to them simply translating the old C4000 C-Bus comms task:

    1. The ability to specify the target C-Bus network, other than the Local Network, for each integriti C-Bus Aux (which are internally programmed within the Concept panel - each integriti C-Bus Aux is distinctly different to and independent of any Clipsal C-Bus Aux Input hardware Units). A small list of 4-8 C-Bus Networks from which you could assign to each integriti C-Bus Aux would be OK, if assigning a unique Network to each C-Bus Aux consumed too many resources.

    2. Support for the C-Bus IP network CNI, and USB interface, in addition to the old 9 pin D connector Serial C-Bus interface (not urgent while the C-Bus RS-232 interface is still available).

    3. A means of reducing the chance of C-Bus events being lost when several events are being queued in communications between the integriti and the C-Bus Interface.

    4. The ability to use the integriti's on-board serial Port 0 continuously with the RS232 serial C-Bus Interface, so that it is not necessary to add a UART PCB when using the serial C-Bus Interface.

    5. Add to the Action options for a Zone Input a C-Bus automation aux, so it is no longer necessary to go through so many intermediaries to track a zone input on C-Bus. (Previous needed Zone Input -> Home Aux -> Phantom Aux (if enough available) -> C-Bus Aux, just to follow a C4000 zone input with a C-Bus group address.)

    6. Support to be able to change the state and level of a C-Bus Aux from the integriti Primsa terminal, if a direct link from Zone Input to C-Bus Aux is implemented, since mediating phantom auxiliaries and home auxiliaries would no longer be involved.

    Feel free to add your own suggestions, based upon your own needs in integrating C-Bus automation with Inner Range security and access control.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2012
    Brendan Rogers, Aug 19, 2012
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  10. Brendan Rogers

    Don

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    This is fine as long as the "C-Bus Aux" is a unit based on a PC Interface or C-Bus SIMM (or similar). Terminology might be confused here with the C-Bus Auxilairy input unit, which is a simpler device which relies on bridge configuration to copy messages from the local network to any other specified network.
    The best way to do this is to issue a command to the PC Interface, then wait for a confirmation from the PC Interface before issuing another command. If the message does not transmit on the network, the confirmation will tell you, and it can also give you some coded diagnostic information of the reason for the failure (no clock, etc.).
     
    Don, Aug 20, 2012
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  11. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    Integriti C-Bus integration now publicly available.

    Inner Range publicly released integriti panel firmware with support for C-Bus bi-directional integration via RS232 C-Bus serial interface (or via LAN C-Bus Network Interface) recently.

    We have had a chance to deploy this on multiple C-Bus/integriti installations now using RS232 C-Bus serial interfaces, and can report that these installations are working nicely.

    We have found that the RS232 C-Bus Serial Interfaces with dark blue cases and firmware 4.4.00 or 5.4.00 seem to work fine, but not older C-Bus Serial Interfaces with green cases and firmware 3.11.

    (We are independent home automation Systems Integrators, not employees of Inner Range.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2013
    Brendan Rogers, Nov 22, 2013
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  12. Brendan Rogers

    ashleigh Moderator

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    I think this started development a long time ago; working with v4+ PCIs is not a surprise as the earlier ones had some quirks.
     
    ashleigh, Nov 22, 2013
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  13. Brendan Rogers

    Robbo_VIC

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    I too have successfully integrated the new Integriti system with Cbus and can confirm it works nicely. Only downside so far is being restricted to the Lighting Application. Not so good when you have a completely full application and can't spare a Group Address
     
    Robbo_VIC, Nov 24, 2013
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  14. Brendan Rogers

    Brendan Rogers

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    Hi Roosta,

    At the moment you are right.

    In the Inner Range CS Software Automation Point Dialog window (previously called the Automation Primitive), you can select as Type "CBus: Custom" rather than "CBus: Lighting". This feature is currently not enabled in the firmware of the controller, but will be in the future. I am advised that this was intended as an advanced feature that would allow people with knowledge of the C-Bus protocol to specify their own C-Bus commands, but I mention it here because it also allows you to specify the C-Bus Application that you want to use.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
    Brendan Rogers, Nov 25, 2013
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  15. Brendan Rogers

    rikaussie

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    Is it possible to use C-Bus PIRs as alarm/virtual PIRs through this interface?

    What other things are you using the CBUS interface for?
     
    rikaussie, May 16, 2016
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  16. Brendan Rogers

    Ashley W

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    Don't know about this product, but really that's not what the C-bus PIR's are designed for. For one they they really hardened like a true alarm PIR then there is the issue of power. Very easy to kill the juice to the house or cut the c-bus cable, which will kill the PIR and the panel wouldn't have a clue they had dropped off the air.

    But standard alarm PIR's the power is feed from the panel, so if panel is alive, PIR should be alive. Cut the wire and you should get a tamper etc.
     
    Ashley W, May 16, 2016
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  17. Brendan Rogers

    rikaussie

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    Hi Ashley,

    The great thing about C-Bus is you can do lots of things is wasn't designed to do :)

    I have considered all of the issues you mention.

    Not relying on C-Bus PIRs alone, but am trying to avoid having both in the same room. I was also planning to use the alarm PIRs to perform C-Bus functions.

    Also while I note perhaps it's "Very easy to kill the juice to the house or cut the c-bus cable" on some buildings, but not simple here with three phase underground and meter and MSB in secure locations.

    FYI I've used Comfort before http://www.cytech.biz

    It can do the things I've mentioned above, but lacks the ability to do access control and customised areas etc. Which is why I was investigating the InnerRange system.
     
    rikaussie, May 16, 2016
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