New house but old C-Bus

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by odonnells, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. odonnells

    bmerrick

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    Hi Bruce,

    Though I am not sitting there, I feel the Toolkit is dropping out just as the Minder is periodically sending Hayes Modem reset strings to initialise a modem it 'suspects' is there. Toolkit isn't expecting that on a PCI. If this is the issue, you can attach hyperterminal etc to it in terminal mode and you will see ATZ
    ATS0=2
    ?+++ATH
    etc

    'The serial port output you are seeing are modem control strings as the Minder thinks it is talking to a modem to allow remote access. ATZ reset the modem to factory defaults, ATS0=2 sets a modem to answer on the second 'ring', +++ sets the modem to 'command state' and ATH hangs up waiting for call. Look for 'AT modem command' or 'Hayes modem strings' on Google for more info. ' See http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7223&highlight=hayes for more detail

    It could also be:
    1. Like Mr Mark says, the PSU has too much voltage on the c-Bus making the c-Bus comms AC waveform transmitted 'on top' of the DC voltage get 'clipped'.
    2. A burden is not present or the capacitor is old, dry and dead. Use a new burden or enable one in the relay you showed pictures of. Remove the other one.

    As for the Minder programming, I wanted to give you a taste so you know what you are in for. If you are looking for an all consuming holiday project, then this is it!!! :D

    See attached JPG 1 :- from the training manual. Note well the 'Experience' piece of the pie chart and also the line 'Everything that the HomeMinder is required to do must be programmed in explicit incremental terms a line at a time'. Still makes me shiver!!! :p

    Next is JPG2 - a copy of what YOU need to write just to get one small part of the program working. This is pg93 and the 'demo program' fills full pages to page 111 (though you can use the demo as a template to a degree)

    Save yourself the PHD and purchase a newer logic unit. You'll thank everyone and yourself!! Wisers are my favorites as you get so much in one box (including iPhone and iPad local/remote house control) but everyone's cottoned on to that now and so demand is hugely outstripping supply.

    Happy to help. PM me for a time.

    Regards again,

    Brad
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2012
    bmerrick, Dec 4, 2012
    #21
  2. odonnells

    Ashley W

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    Toolkit never supported using Minder as the PC interface, however there were some versions where it worked well enough, but the problems the OP seems to be having seem to point to a minder issue. The only real way around it is to get a CBUS PC interface and forget about using Minder as the interface.

    And conformist agree with you is something is working no real need to throw it out. In my case I have done exactly what you mentioned which is to put in a touch screen with logic and all my new logic has migrated to that. All my minder does now is irrigation and believe it or not security!

    I have had one go belly up on me so replaced it about 3 years ago and managed to get another off Ebay which is a cold spare. My only fear is a keypad going belly up.
     
    Ashley W, Dec 4, 2012
    #22
  3. odonnells

    Conformist

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    you should be able to get a keypad if you ever need one by putting out a distress signal on this forum. I know some people have some spares

    Cheers
     
    Conformist, Dec 4, 2012
    #23
  4. odonnells

    bmerrick

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    Hi Conformist and AshleyW,

    Yes, but you are both Minder programming legends!!! .... and not short a few spare parts in your home workshops too i'm sure :p (Ashley, I have some new in box keypads and temp sensors if you want them, PM me). But Odonnells is a customer who I assume really just wants his house to work as intended.

    IMHO the old logic in Odonnells unit is probably partially redundant by now (being 12-13 years old and done to meet the needs/desires of a former owner) requiring updating etc. Unless he does it himself it will cost him more in programming services than a brand new unit he could more easily program himself.

    To me, there seems no point for a client to learn the outdated and intricate Minder software/programming language just to put new logic into another unit and maintain a dual system, one running new easier to operate PICED software and the other running software from before Windows XP. Also, his Minder may die soon like yours did, and he doesn't have a spare. Better to bite the bullet now as we know spares are getting hard to find.

    Also, influencing my removal suggestion was that I recently spent several hours helping another forum poster with an issue that was his self programmed c-Bus enabled alarm panel causing the strange issues he was seeing on his c-Bus network. This alarm was half the age of the Minder and yet decided to go all 'Terminator' on him.

    With the Minder there is no easy way (for a customer) to see what it is doing with the c-Bus groups in the background and some of the group addresses it has hard programmed in from 12+ years ago are possibly now changed by Toolkit. It could also be looking for a GA to signal some event that is now redundant, eg panic button, smoke det, reed switch, door release etc and if the client adding to his network mistakenly uses those GAs for new lighting control etc, can become a difficult to diagnose issues. You can't 'look into' a Minder from the c-Bus side from Toolkit to see what group addresses it is manipulating.

    He can put in a Homesafe with a c-Bus interface and arm and monitor that from his iPhone if he gets a Wiser, all without any really difficult programming whatsoever. A 'modernised' c-Bus implementation and robust security giving his house automation a new lease on life for surprisingly little.

    In my opinion, to get back to self supportable by Odonnells, which is what he seems to want and to save him money (in outside maintenance labour), the Minder really should find a dustbin, function as an alarm only (and have the other c-bus logic GA driving programs cleaned out) or become a new eBay item (so you have more spares!! :D )

    Kind Regards,

    Brad
     
    bmerrick, Dec 4, 2012
    #24
  5. odonnells

    Ashley W

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    True except the issues the OP has is trying to use Minder as a PC interface to fix some C-Bus issues, which as we know doesn't work too well with toolkit and certainly not supported. So what he really needs is a 'native' CBUS PC interface and he doesn't really need to touch Minder, well for the time being anyway.
     
    Ashley W, Dec 5, 2012
    #25
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