NEW Cbus 4CC DIN Enclosures

I saw the new 4CC Series of DIN rail Enclosures. In the Electrical Connections Magazine.

They are surface mount OR flush mount. 15 Modules wide in a 1,2,3 or 4 row version.

Clipsal advertise that they are suitable for CBUS. And have Spacious Wiring room.

has any body used these ?? How many seperate neutral bars are there and how many screw terminals.


What a petty Clipsal did not make it 16 modules wide. (ie 2 x 8 module cbus) or 8 x Combined RCD/CB.


Does not look spacious to me... Clipsal never leave enough room at the top for cable entry when you have 50 cbus circuits.


Is this the new CBUS switch board there were hints about, or is it still comming one day.

Charles

 

You must have read my mind. I was going to post the same question after reading this mornings messages.

An update on te new board would be great.

Gotta ask charles, how many 8 module units do use use. Mostly its all 12m or 4m. I know they exist (the 8 module) but never really see anyone talk about them. Although tHis does not explain whay 15 module wide was used and not 16. An even number seems to work better.

Mick

 

It is when there is a lot of roller shutter control or curtain control. There can be a lot of change over relays 8 Modules wide

Charles

 

Looking for a DIN housing that will probably house a total of 60-70 C-Bus modules 12's and 8's. Clipsal's website is really differcult to ferret out anyone know a solution.

Happy to a go a little larger as I will need to put some RCB/MCB on the dimmer circuits.

This system is just growing like Toppsy!

Cheers,

Fleetz _ Australia

 

The past few Cbus domestic installs that I have seen have used the cheapo Chinese enclosures (SPM / Tesla etc brands). They are fairly (very) crappy but work well for this kind of usage.

I think the 4-row x 15 pole boards only cost about A$80. They have full-length Earth and Neutral bars - I wouldn't want to pull 100A thru any connection on the neutral, but it's fine for numerous small loads (as generally used by Cbus).

A 15-pole wide is not a bad size - allows the use of a RCD/MCB next to each 12pole Cbus module. Bummer that 2x8's won't fit however...

I am using a couple of similar Chinese ones in my own house for temporary installations - the "brand name" boards are SO much nicer to work with, but when you have to deal with LOTS of module poles, they get unbeliveably expensive !
- Then again, I am on an extremely limited budget

The last large job (motor vehicle showroom) I programmed didn't even use an off the shelf enclosure. All they did was screw lengths of bare DIN-rail onto plywood, then made a hinged door to cover it.

I can tell you that it was the easiest way to cope, as it would have been too big using individual enclosures. They installed 36 modules wide (3x12pole), and about 8 rows high. That got 24 x 12pole Cbus relays into a space about 800mm wide and 1.5m high

Cheers, JC

 

Thanks JC,

For my application the cheapo Chinese enclosures SPM / Tesla etc brands will do the job.

Where do purchase these enclosures from?

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

No shame !

Really should the words cheapo or chinese really be used in the same sentence or phase when refering to CBUS , Doesnt really scream quality JOB to me . But hey . Each to there own i suppose

 

Let me explain my application!

I am currently setting up a complete test bed home automation system prior to installing it in a house we are building 4000km away. All I am wanting the el cheapo DIN enclosure to do is for probably 3 months house some C-Bus relays and dimmers so they are safley installed in the test bed, after which time the el cheapo enclosure it will probably find it's way to the tip so a 3-4 row for around $80 will be sweet

For new house installation I am trying to find a high quality DIN housing probably a 70-80 DIN units with smoked glass door, to locate all the Clipsal kit. I would expect the unit for the new house will be +$1000 ish.

I am still looking for this unit as a solution so I can spec it in..........anyone help with a brand that might fit the bill. Clispal would be great I just cant find anything close to what I am after on the website. Options would be good.

I still am seeking the cheap and cheerful 3 or 4 row enclosure with all the internals to just plug the DIN modules and wire them up for use with the home automation system I am integration.

Rest assured I am not trying in anyway to by association cheapen the high quality Clipsal product.

I hope someone can assist with suggestions for both the el cheapo and high end DIN enclosure applications. Should say I live in Adelaide.

Thanks

Fleetz

 

I don't know how these enclosures rate in the whole scheme of things, but they seem ok.

I didn't choose them, they were just supplied.

The 4 larger ones are the same as the small one just bigger and without the front fitted.

If you want me to look up the brand, let me know (although someone else here will probably know).

 

Would love to find out the brand thanks. Looks like the C-Bus bit would breath OK. Hard to see closely in the photo it appears tou could fit another DIN row in between but then the heat build up would be greater.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

I use the clipsal 4C48FD. A basic 48 module steel box. We have typically flush mounted them in the past. They are lockable.

They dont have a smoked door on them, but you dont normally put the gear on display, so it was not a pproblem.

They are probably not the cheapest, but there is plenty of room in them

Mick

 

Thanks znelbok,

That look OK for the final installation I agree on the smoked door.

Still need the cheap and cheerful solution for those who might know a source of the afore mentioned SPM / Tesla etc brands in JohnC previuos post

Thanks,

Fleetz

 

Hi Mick,
I like them as well.
http://www.integratorsforum.com/showthread.php?t=49&highlight=4c48fd

 

Here in Sydney the cheapies can be sourced via the "alternate" wholesalers - the ones that are *NOT* Middies, Gemcell, Hagermeyer, MMgroup, etc. I don't know what to call this kind of wholesaler... they are the ones that also sell the no-name power points, etc.

I know that the cheap enclosures are available on eBay, but they tend to be only 8 to 18 module single-row. I just bought an SPM 18 single row for my own temporary switchboard for $50 incl freight. A better bargain was a 2row x 12 module Clipsal 4FCC24 flush mount, brand new for $1... and when I got there to pick it up the guy said "don't bother about the money" !

I've also had success sourcing electricals by contacting eBay electrical wholesalers, and directly requesting stuff - the prices are good, service is good too. I am pretty sure I recently bopught some stuff from an Adelaide vendor who sells on eBay.

And I also hate finding stuff on the Clipsal website - there's almost no info about switchboards, and there's no dimensions listed not veen on downloadable brochures etc (hey - dimensions DO matter on boards, you naughty Clipsal folks)

***************

As for the "quality" issue - in my opinion the perceived (by electricians) quality of the enclosure really makes no difference to the installation quality anyway. All you need is some DIN rails and a neutral and earth bar... the wiring methods and documentation makes the biggest difference to reliability and quality of installation.

Providing that the box is safe, and there sufficient room to move inside there, I really don't see the point of spending hundreds of dollars on something that is hidden away in a cupboard or storeroom. I personally have an extremely limited budget for renovations, so I'd rather spend it adding functionality to the control system itself.

For example, $500 saved on a switchboard would get you quite a few DLT switches instead of Saturn Ulti's. It'd also pay for a heap of spare TPS cables running out to each room so that lighting groups could be reconfigured later (eg: have 1 x cable to every 2 downlightlights, then electrically group 4 or 6 onto 1 Cbus channel back at the board).

Of course if the client has plenty of money, the quality Name Brand enclosures should be used. But inevitably the client wants the price lowered, and I would rather give them a good Cbus install in cheapo enclosures, rather than a compromised Cbus install in nice enclosures

JC

 

I had a look and their ABB brand (whatever that is) I did not fit them off, but they seem ok.

 

Thanks JohnC for the quaility reply

Regards,
Fleetz

 

Not so. I was browsing the other day for info on the boards and found a document that had dimensioned drawings in it for their switchboards.

Try THis
http://products.clipsal.com/scripts/ProductInformation.dll?LaunchBrochure&ID=1235

This has not always been the case as I went through this excercise about two years ago and could not find anything on the physical aspects of the boards. Eventually had to ring clipsal for info.

Mick

 

Customise

Have you tried talking to any of your local switch board manufacturers/engineers? They should be able to make a board to your exact requirements, will probably be steel so will cost accordingly. In reference to the plywood enclosure I would be cautious as you may find that your supply authority requires some kind of fire rating of the enclosure. Remember too that you cannot common up neutrals from different circuits to a common neutral bar.

Peter Brown.

 

First of all - sorry for the following rant. Have had a rather annoying day trying to sort out space and cable runs in the biggest clipsal enclosure that is apparently available......

They want us to use their product for everything, i shoudlnt have to install multiple boards side by side or on top of each other, and i shouldnt have to visit sheet metal workers to custom make an enclosure to do a residential install.

I still reckon that as C-bus is a clipsal product, and as most of us use clipsal enclosures - they should make the boards to accommodate 2 relay or dimmer units side by side. And for me it means at least 10 cbus relays/ dimmer units in 1 enclosure rather than the 5 max currently able to fit in the 4fc75mfd enclosure. And just cause i can, a little bit more clearance between the units and the earth and nuetral bars would be nice

 

I normally use a single row 20 wide enclosure.

It would contain
- C-Bus full width module
- MCB or single width RCD/CB
- Clipsal OVP
- Earth management block such as Krone Terminator (400V) or one of the German push-in blocks.
- 4mm to 2.5mm Earth joiner (din mounted)

(main board has a full size single or three phase lightning diverter).

I only do this in situations where I know I cant fit everything into an enclosure, I used ducting to pack cabling above and below the enclosures. Overall the looks it neat and tidy but due to the number of wires, no enclosure would have done the job. I have also used junction points in pool houses and hi-fi areas to spread some of the cabling to the locations and not having all of the loads in one point. It seems wasteful to run EVERYTHING to one location when there are ample hiding places.

If I had 4 rows I certainly wouldnt use 4 modules. I need additional space to handle the Neutral and Earth and I tend to use the more expensive products which allow you to have from 1 - 20 way common. While it does add cost to the job I find that I can get about 1000 terminations done in half the time. In a 5 level house, 1500 terminations are not unusual.