Network playing up and cannot connect

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by lookaflyingdonkey, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. lookaflyingdonkey

    lookaflyingdonkey

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    I have a network of around 15 or so units comprising of mostly relays/dimmers and wall switches. The network has been running fine for 2-3 years but lately I have been having issues with lights not always turning off when a button is pressed or lights just randomly turning themselves off.

    I went to connect to the network (I have a RS232 PC Interface) and it is really playing up, I can sometimes connect and do a network scan, but nearly have to unravel every time with a different unit, often one or more units "Failed to scan"

    I have attached a screenshot of the toolkit screen and of the cgate window.

    I have tried removing all but the PC interface and one of the dimmers and it cannot connect properly. I am able to connect to and edit the PC_LOCAL interface from the toolkit fine, but any other device just times out.

    I have tried two computers and a mix of direct serial connection and a USB->Serial adapter, exact same result.

    I am at a loss, could it be the RS232 interface?

    When I connect the serial to my Control4 unit (Home Automation controller) it seems to be able to communicate with it no worries.

    Cheers,
    Dean
     

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    lookaflyingdonkey, Jun 9, 2014
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  2. lookaflyingdonkey

    lookaflyingdonkey

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    Sorry can I get this moved to the non wireless section, dont know why I posted it here...
     
    lookaflyingdonkey, Jun 9, 2014
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  3. lookaflyingdonkey

    DarylMc

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    Have you got a network burden plugged in?
    Even if you had a burden enabled at unit 1 it might not be there if you have unplugged some units.

    I just noticed you have a key input at unit 1 so you must have a plug in burden somewhere.

    If you haven't already tried maybe power cycle the PCI too.
     
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    DarylMc, Jun 9, 2014
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  4. lookaflyingdonkey

    lookaflyingdonkey

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    Thanks for the quick reply DarylMc, I have tried power cycling the whole system to no avail, also physically disconnecting the PCI and trying with a new cable direct to the Dimmer to rule out any cabling issues.

    As far as I know one of the relays/dimmers were set to network burden, but that could possibly explain it if the whole network has gone haywire. The PCI always used to be at 001 but everything has been shuffling with every scan so not sure what is happening.

    I don't have a plug in burden around, is there any alternative to give it a test? Hacked cable with a resistor inline? Or can I program something to provide the burden without the toolkit?

    Cheers
     
    lookaflyingdonkey, Jun 9, 2014
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  5. lookaflyingdonkey

    lookaflyingdonkey

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    hmm, you may be onto something, I just dug out an old 5000sm/2 module I had laying around as they have a jumper selectable burden and put it after the rs232 interface and the network seems much more stable... So my options are I leave this here or figure out what caused the problem...any ideas?
     
    lookaflyingdonkey, Jun 9, 2014
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  6. lookaflyingdonkey

    rhamer

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    You look like your in a bit of a hurry, so I'll jump in.

    There are 2 types of burdens, software and hardware.

    Hardware burdens are physically plugged in, software ones are enabled on some C-Bus units.

    However if you enable a software burden, it must be on a unit at address 1.

    Cheers

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Jun 9, 2014
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  7. lookaflyingdonkey

    DarylMc

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    Well if that is working just get hold of a burden.
    Plug in burdens save a lot of problems with having to put software burden at unit address 1.

    You can also make one.
    From the CBus training manual
    Get your manual out and read up on burdens and software burdens.

    Enabling the software burden can also be done in learn mode but that is also going to readdress the device.

    http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/__data/page/4129/Enable_a_Network_Burden_Using_Learn_Mode.pdf
     
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    DarylMc, Jun 9, 2014
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  8. lookaflyingdonkey

    Mr Mark

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    Have to agree with Daryl, and strongly suggest using a hardware burden over a software one. Just last week, I fixed another residential project that was only a few years old. Initially the call was for PIR's that intermittently triggered but wouldn't time out, then scenes from the touch screen weren't fully activating. A software burden was enabled in unit 001 and showed as being active in the GUI. Plugging in a hardware burden restored comms and this was also observed when using an oscilloscope.
     
    Mr Mark, Jun 9, 2014
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  9. lookaflyingdonkey

    DarylMc

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    Hi Mark
    I was chatting to CIS tech support recently.
    Not having done any installs with a huge number of units, I came across an install where Toolkit wasn't asking for a burden at all.
    The advice was that a very small install might even benefit from 2 burdens.
    Medium size network up to 50 units one burden.
    Greater than 70 no burden required.

    Checking the signal with oscilloscope sounds a very thorough way to do it.
    Was I asleep in those courses because I always thought the training and documentation said one burden per network?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2014
    DarylMc, Jun 9, 2014
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  10. lookaflyingdonkey

    lookaflyingdonkey

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    Thanks all for your responses, much appreciated!

    Looks like somehow the unit acting as the burden was moved form 001, either unintentionally or by some mysterious chain of events.

    Hardware burden it is, for 25c of components can save hours of hair pulling!

    Cheers,
    Dean
     
    lookaflyingdonkey, Jun 10, 2014
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