ness d16 x and Cbus

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by Dak, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. Dak

    Dak

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    Hello All,

    After a couple of years of playing around with my cbus and paradox alarm panel, I have been told by the security installers that the paradox system and more precisely the PRT3 Printer module will not do what I would like it to do.

    The security installers have agreed to supply a Ness D16x alarm panel. I have a few questions that you may be able to help me with.

    * have been told that I will not be able to have both cbus controling the alarm panel and the alarm keypad controling the alarm at the same time. Is this correct? Surely the alarm keypad can co-exist with the cbus gear.

    * I would like to be able to arm and disarm the alarm from my ctouch. Have some logic that will turn the lights on in the entry hallway when the door is opened (cbus would know the door is opened because there is a reed switch on the front door connected to the alarm panel), then present a keypad on the ctouch for you to enter the alarm code, which would then disarm the alarm if the alarm code entered was correct. Does this sound like an achievable outcome?

    * I would like a single button on the ctouch to turn the lights out and arm the alarm system on exit of the premises. Is this achievable and reasonable?

    * I would like some of the PIR sensors of the alarm to trigger actions on the cbus network - child wakes at night to go to the bathroom - triggers the PIR sensor - turns the hallway lights on. Is this achievable and reasonable?

    Reading one of the other posts on the forum, am I correct to say that most of the programming for the ness / cbus connectivity is done on the ness side of things (except of course the logic etc to control events on the cbus side of things)?

    Does anybody have, or able to point me in the right direction for information on how to program the ness in regards to its communication with the cbus network?

    Thanks in advance.

    Additional info:

    I spoke to the alarm installer yesterday - he told me that the Ctouch would not be able to disarm the ness d16 because only the alarm keypad can disarm the panel because of some encryption the alarm uses. So is he saying that the alarm keypad sends the disarm request in an encrypted form, and the Ctouch cannot send the disarm request because it is not encrypted? Can anybody help me understand please???
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2010
    Dak, Nov 11, 2010
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  2. Dak

    zx9

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    I'm a noobie when it comes to cbus so I'm sure many here can give you all the information you need but I do have c-bus lighting and a ness16x cbus enabled panel although I am yet to program them to work together I can at least answer some of your questions.


    I am not certain but pretty sure you can have both
    You can arm from any cbus input but I think you can only disarm from a ctouch or the alarm panel itself.
    You can turn on the lights from the disarm function but not via the reed itself


    Yes and Yes

    No, you need to use cbus PIRs for cbus controls the alarm can only send cbus certain messages like armed/disarmed/alarm/fire alarm/panic alarm etc... so you can program certain cbus event from these. ie. on arm turn off all the lights or on disarm turn on the hallway lights. You can also use a keyfob with the ness panel so before you walk in the door it can disarm and turn on the lights open the roller door etc...

     
    zx9, Nov 12, 2010
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  3. Dak

    Ashley

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    The D16x Cbus panel does not actually implement the CBus security but allows limited functionality via standard lighting commands. The panel can be programmed to respond to 3 group addresses to arm Area 1, Area 2 or Area 1 & 2. That's the sum total of the control. The panel can send up to 16 CBus control messages when different D16x events occur such as Arming, Disaming, Alarms or when zones become unsealed either with the panel armed or disarmed. The panel cannot be disarmed via CBus commands. In fact even the full CBus security application will not allow disarming of panels as this is not considered secure. Some panels will respond to virtual keypresses (i.e. CBus commands that emulate pressing a key on the alarm panel keyboard) which will allow you to disarm the panel by entering the appropriate disarm code (e.g. The Ness M1). The D16x can trigger Cbus groups when PIR's are triggered, however this is generally not recommened as PIRs have no inbuilt filtering and can easily flood the CBus with messages.

    So to answer your questions:

    Both Cbus and the Alarm Keypad can Arm the system. CBus cannot disarm the system.

    When the system is Armed (from CBus or the Keypad) or Disarmed (only from the Keypad) a Cbus event can be triggered from the panel which can be used to control lighting via a cbus logic device.

    You could turn on lights when a door reed is triggered by assiging the reed zone to one of the 16 available cbus events.

    A single CTouch button can turn the lights out and arm the system using a simple scene by including the group address assigned to arm the panel in the scene

    Using security PIR sensors to trigger lighting is possible but a really bad idea (except as detailed below)

    To accomplish your requirements you will need a more advanced panel like the Ness M1 with the CBus interface. The M1 supports most of the CBus security application so you can Arm and Disarm the panel (by sending a series of virutal keystrokes). It is also feasible to utilize PIR sensors for lighting control because the M1 can be programmed to act like a CBus motion detector and only output CBus messages at the start and end of a timeout period.

    There are also a number of other panels mentioned in the forums that I believe can perform what you require that others may be able to comment on.
     
    Ashley, Nov 12, 2010
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  4. Dak

    Dak

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    Thanks very much for the replies.
    Ashley you have answered all my questions - cheers
     
    Dak, Nov 12, 2010
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  5. Dak

    zx9

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    Thanks Ashley, much appreciated knowledge. Gives me a bit more confidence for when I finally get around to linking my panel with my cbus.

    just one question tho, you say that the alarm panel can't be disarmed by ctouch yet ctouch can emulate pressing the keys on the control pad. wouldn't this mean that it was possible to disarm by using a keypad display on the ctouch. That was my understanding at least.
     
    zx9, Nov 15, 2010
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  6. Dak

    Darpa

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    As Ashley said, you would need a more advanced panel, such as the M1, to achieve this.
     
    Darpa, Nov 15, 2010
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  7. Dak

    zx9

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    Thanks Darpa, however it was Ashley's answer that lead me to ask the question about the ctouch emulating the control pad.

    Can you please elaborate - what does "emulate pressing the keys on the control pad" mean if it doesn't mean excactly what it sounds like - the ctouch posing as a control pad. I was told by a cbus installer that a colour ctouch could be used like an extra keypad to disarm the system by typing the code into the ctouch. (i wouldn't know if being a colour ctouch makes any difference but thats what I was told at the time the alarm was install - and since I dont have a ctouch I couldn't check)


    Thanks.
     
    zx9, Nov 15, 2010
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  8. Dak

    Ashley

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    The issue in disarming is not with the c-touch but with the alarm panel. The C-touch is capable of sending the virtual keystrokes to the panel, but the D16x panel does not respond to them since they are part of the CBus security protocol that the D16x panel does not support. More advanced panels like the M1 support the CBus security application (to various degress anyway) and will respond to virtual keystrokes from CBus so can emulate most functions of the alarm panel keypad
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2010
    Ashley, Nov 15, 2010
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  9. Dak

    zx9

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    it would seem like I was misinformed. not to bother as I never had need for that function anyway as I use keyfobs to arm/disarm. thanks for clearing that up.


     
    zx9, Nov 15, 2010
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