NEO KEYM8 1.4.0 – Unit Transfer failed 45127, dimmers program OK

(new user here sorry if this post is in the wrong place, pls direct me if that's case tnks)

I can't save programming changes to any of the NEO key input units on my home C-Bus network. Changes save to the Toolkit database, but the transfer to the unit fails every time.

Details:
- Units: 13 x KEYM8 8-gang NEO key input units (5058NL), all firmware 1.4.0, addresses 101–115
- Error when saving to the unit: 45127 "Unit Transfer failed"
- Earlier, when opening units: 3036 "Failed to load unit programming. Network Scan is required"
- Reading from the keypads works; only writing fails
- Dimmer units (DIMDN4, firmware 1.3.0) on the same network program without any problem
- Same result on two different PCs, with Toolkit 1.16.3 and Toolkit 1.19.5
- Network diagnostics are healthy: voltage good, 1 burden, 2 clocks
- Interface: PCLOCAL4 DIN Rail PC Interface (firmware 4.2.00), network 254
- The "Open Unit in Classic" option is greyed out for these keypads

Questions:
1. Is there a known issue programming NEO key units on firmware 1.4.0 with these Toolkit versions?
2. Is a firmware update available for these units, and how is it applied?

thanks for your patience-new user trying to get across all this.
(I inherited this setup I didn't create it so can't know if a new issue or old one)
OldDogNewTrick

 

Let's break this down to help, obviously it's a communication issue, but why.
You say the voltage is good, but there's more to it than just the reading of the volt meter or what toolkit displays.
You could have a failing power supply.
Suggestions, download a copy of diagnostics utility and run that loads of info on this site how to use it and what the results mean, ask question if unsure.
Try removing some of your inputs and rescan the network to see if things improve, if there is an improvement its a good indication that a power supply may be failing.

 

Thanks for pitching in Wonkey...I've a tech background but on mil comms not C-bus....

I ran the diags utility - traffic and error messages all no to low and nothing untowards.

I've found by disconnecting one of the pink cbus control wires solves the issue....neo keypads are now editable. But that also removes 2 dimmers and a relay module from the toolkit network view...

A few weeks ago we can a cbus repair guy in and he was 4 hours rummaging around and replaced a PSU and Dimmer module. But he was on the phone to his boss most of the time and pretty clueless.

Could he have caused the problem by maybe creating a control wire loop and I broke that loop so it now (partly) works? Next I need to create a network topology diagram and learn the basics of what I've inherited...thanks for help so far!

 

Did removing that cable also disconnect some inputs as well, hence reducing the load do you know if the dimmer that was changed had an inbuilt 200ma power supplyand was it replaced with the same type?
Do you know where the network burden is? This could be either a physical one or a software enable one.
With regard to a loop highly unlikely as those units are simply connected by patch leads.

If none of the above solves issue reconnect everything and using a multimeter measure the voltage across C-Bus and from each leg to earth.
should be about half.
If one leg is near 0v start looking for a short to earth, this would cause really bad comms.
Key inputs are a good place to look as what can happen is a conductor gets wrapped around the screw when it's screwed back.
let's us know what happens

 

Thanks again Wonkey....Yes you're right my initial diagnosis was off...by disconnecting a cbus cable what I'd actually done was remove a relay module. Now with that unit out of circuit everything works and all remaining units can be programmed via toolkit/comission as applicable. So I'm thinking that relay unit is somehow 'noisey' on the net - even though it does do it's switching job I can't get into it and prevents a scan working. So I've got a 2nd hand unit on the way to swap out. Voltages are good all round according to diag utility. Toolkit reports 2 clocks and 1 burden and I know where they are. Will report results of swap out tests. Btw that comission app has the worst interface ever...unreadable....thanks for your tips so far

 

I agree the new SLCC is not the best, but it's the future.
You can unlock each bit of the application and make it larger to work on,
Are you aware that the older dimmers and relays came either with or without an inbuilt 200ma psu.
Identified in the part no with a P at the end to show it has NO POWER, yes the wrong way round to what you would think

 

Just a quick note on measuring the voltage on each Cbus wire to ground....
The voltages must be balanced ie the same on each wire to ground, if not this does indicate a bad Cbus power supply