Mode 3 telephone connector

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by rune, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. rune

    rune

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    Hi all,

    I have a HomeMinder installed at home (Cyprus) witch works well enough except that I cannot access it from an in-house phone (any phone connected to the same line). I can program it to call out and I can call to the HomeMinder from an external phone, but that's it.

    According to the manual I need a "Mode 3" telephone connection. The only problem is that I have no clue what that is and nor does anyone else around here - or at least so it seems. Cyprus uses UK standards for everything, including telephone.

    What I am trying to achieve is to ring the internal phones when someone is at the door. Currently I have to make a call to my mobile.

    Can anyone help?
    Rune
     
    rune, Dec 3, 2004
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  2. rune

    coppo

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    mode 3 connector

    i find it exceptionally hard to believe that you cannot get a mode 3/611 socket over there. These are commonplace for anyone who does security panel installations and are not specific to Homeminder.

    I would suggest talking to Security system wholesalers/installers in Cyprus, if that is too hard, you may have to try another country.

    The mode 3 socket has bridged internal contacts, when no plug is inserted the pins short and put the phone line through to the downstream phones via 2 alternative connections in the socket. If a plug ( dialler lead) is inserted into the socket than the shorting pins are opened and the line is routed through the Security panel or homeminder first, then through to the downstream phones.

    As for wiring digrams---- when you installed the Homeminder ( V404) software on your computer, it also installed all of the installation manuals as well. It is in a folder called ONLINE DOCUMENTATION, have a look at instructions for the phone card, they list the wiring detail. Alternatively the instructions that came with the product have the same information
     
    coppo, Dec 3, 2004
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  3. rune

    dbuckley

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    The 6xx type plugs are standard in Oz, and used in a small number of other places but are by no means commonplace in the global scheme of things.

    Cyprus uses the rather more common LJU, a/k/a BT, British, United Kingdom style sockets. There is no "mode 3" version of these connectors.


    Again, in Ozland maybe, but in the Rest of the World - nada.

    "Mode 3" is Oz terminology. Its no surprise that no-one outsize of Oz has heard of it.

    Panels worldwide are wired in-line with the phone line (as the mode 3 connection mechanism provides for) but I've never seen or heard of an inline installation that isn't hardwired. I'm guessing that in Oz there are rules that prevent you from simply looping the telecom wiring through the panel. Certainly if I were a bad Guy, it would be great to just unplug the telephone plug for the panel to disable the call to the alarm centre.

    So what rune needs to do is to split his phone wiring so that it passes "through" the panel, not just simply across the phone lines, as I guess its wired at the moment. In accordance with the "mode 3" diagram. A local alarm installer will be able to help here, I'd have thought.
     
    dbuckley, Dec 3, 2004
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  4. rune

    Frank Mc Alinden

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    Hi David
    From days gone by .... Mode 3 connections were as follows ...Line in was connections 2 + 6 blue+white.....line out to other phones was 1+5 red + black....
    HTH
    Frank
     
    Frank Mc Alinden, Dec 3, 2004
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  5. rune

    dbuckley

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    Hello Frank (again!)

    I've been racking my brains trying to remember of any phone system anywhere that had break in jacks like these mode 3 things, and come up blank. I suspect any of those phone systems the pins of whose plugs could carry whole tens of amps (eg Russia, Italy) could have break connectors fitted easily enough, there is mechanically enough room and oportunity, but the LJU and RJ6 connectors are both dinky, of similar underlying construction (ie cheap) and I've never seen one in a break jack format.

    A long, long, long, long long time ago BT had a plug-in phone system that used jacks with break contacts, as back then all the bells of the phones were wired in series, but that was only for the bell connection, the A+B line were in straight parallel. This was the so-called "Plan 4" connection.

    I can see why a mode 3 jack would be useful, for answering machines in particular, but the idea clearly never travelled well.
     
    dbuckley, Dec 4, 2004
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  6. rune

    Ashley W

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    The main need for mode 3 sockets is so if an alarm goes off the panel can take control of the incoming line and kill everything inside the house. It also stops someone taking the phone off the hook preventing the alarm dialing out.

    I have an RJ45 mode three socket, Krone brand I think.
     
    Ashley W, Dec 5, 2004
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  7. rune

    dbuckley

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    Quick google search found it, yep, a genuine RJ45 mode 3 connector. Could only find it listed for the Ozzie marketplace, what does that tell you :)

    Dont get me wrong - every alarm panel ever made that has a telephone interface is wired as you Ozzies call "mode 3" for exactly the reasons you outline, but it isnt called "mode 3", and it isnt done with a plug - the house phone wire literally goes into the panel, and then comes out and goes to the phones.

    [​IMG]

    Note yellow and black wires on right. (and no, this isnt an install I did!)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2004
    dbuckley, Dec 5, 2004
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  8. rune

    Frank Mc Alinden

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    Hi David
    What do they call a mode3 socket in the UK ...????

    Frank
     
    Frank Mc Alinden, Dec 5, 2004
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  9. rune

    dbuckley

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    In the UK there is no such thing. Doesnt exist. Alarm panels are always hardwired direct to the phone line, and direct to the mains. No plugs!

    In the UK there are two basic families of alarm connections to a monitoring centre (a/k/a ARC, Alarm Response Centre).

    a) Use a standard phone line, and when an event condition occurs, seize the line, dial up and contact the alarm centre. Using integrated modem send information about the event in one of a number of standard formats. When the line is siezed, existing phones are isolated through a relay, to prevent naughtiness. (On some systems, the alarm is just wired in parallel with the line, and invoke three way calling if the line is in use, so they should be able to get through even if a phone is off the hook. Bit dodgy this, in my opinion)

    b) Use BT RedCare system. This provides an auxiliary communications path "on top of" a normal phone line, and use of RedCare signalling doesnt interfere with use of phone line for phone calls. RedCare is fully monitored, so if the line is interfered with an alert is raised at the monitoring centre immediately.

    So if you dont need the level of security that hardwired phone lines offer, such as a HA box, the you can do things differently. The BT rules are that BT provide a master socket, which is their property, and you may not tamper with it. But its a bit of a clever device; its like two layers of sockets in one.

    Have a look here:

    http://www.austin-taylor.co.uk/pages/nte5.htm


    Remove the front faceplate, and what you have in your hard is a odd plug, socket and connection point. All your extensions are connected to the IDC connectors on this plate. So just disconnect your extension wiring from this plate, and connect it to the "phones" side of the minder. get an ordinary LJU to bare ends cable, and connect that to the line side of the minder. Job done.

    Of course, Cyrpus may be a little different - in NZ we also use LJUs, but I've not seen a NTE5 yet...
     
    dbuckley, Dec 5, 2004
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  10. rune

    Frank Mc Alinden

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    b) Use BT RedCare system. This provides an auxiliary communications path "on top of" a normal phone line, and use of RedCare signalling doesnt interfere with use of phone line for phone calls. RedCare is fully monitored, so if the line is interfered with an alert is raised at the monitoring centre immediately.

    Here in Oz they have a system called Securitel which sounds very similiar to BT RedCare......

    Frank
     
    Frank Mc Alinden, Dec 5, 2004
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  11. rune

    Ashley W

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    What you describe in A is what we use mode 3 for, but the difference is our cables are hardwired to a socket (in the same manner) rather then direct to the security panel. I guess with mode 3 sockets if the panel dies you can get downline voice connectivity back just by unplugging the socket, but if hardwired you need to join the cables.

    I've never heard of three way calling here in Aust, sounds interesting and scary at the same time, especially if used in security apps.

    I found a spare of the type of mode 3 RJ45 that I have in my Minder panel. Its Krone #6467 1 107-00. Boy what a problem I had finding that, would have been much easier to go for the 600 series, but managed to find it. I'm surprised with much of Australia going RJ45 rather than 600 series that they aren't more common.
     
    Ashley W, Dec 6, 2004
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