MinderPRO away arm remotely through iphone issue

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wiser 1 Controller' started by shah, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. shah

    shah

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    Dont know whether this i a known issue, if we press away arm through remote connection (3g) via iphone, the system is waiting for the door to be closed?? Which is by who??:)

    Shah
     
    shah, Jun 28, 2011
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  2. shah

    slychiu

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    I think Wiser does not distinguish if the system is being armed remotely or locally. How is the arming done, is it using a simulated keypad arm key? If so that is assumed to be a keypad in the house, so to arm to away mode, you have to exit through the front door and close the door.
    For remote arming, you should use Night Mode
     
    slychiu, Jun 29, 2011
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  3. shah

    shah

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    Yes, i pressed the lock symbol on tje iphone app, the system prompted to exit till arm failure. Is there anyway the issue will be fixed in the future release?
     
    shah, Jul 1, 2011
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  4. shah

    slychiu

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    Not unless Wiser knows that you are arming remotely, not in the house and uses a different command to arm the MinderPro
     
    slychiu, Jul 2, 2011
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  5. shah

    shah

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    Jaya,

    Can you do something about this??
     
    shah, Jul 4, 2011
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  6. shah

    kjayakumar

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    I don't really understand what you're asking for. My understanding is that the iPhone behaves the same way a security panel does. If you tell it to arm as if you're leaving the house, then it does exactly that, if you tell it to go into night mode, then it does exactly that. Perhaps you want to elaborate on what else you want it to do? To be clear, I'm pretty sure it is not a good idea for Wiser to try to determine whether you're standing inside your house pressing the iphone or standing outside the house pressing the iphone. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2011
    kjayakumar, Jul 5, 2011
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  7. shah

    NickD Moderator

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    All any of us involved in product development can do is raise an issue in our defect tracking database. From that point on it is up to product management to decide if anything is done about it. The product managers need to be aware of the issue in order to prioritise it against all of the other issues, and the way for that to happen is for the customers to raise the issue through the sales channel, rather than directly with the engineers.

    In this particular case, the behaviour is actually a function of the security panel. The Wiser sends a command to arm the system, but it seems that the panel (probably for its own good reason) decides not to arm. Unfortunately there is probably nothing that can really be done in the Wiser to fix this.

    That said, if there is another keypad code that can be entered to arm in Night mode as suggested by slychiu, you may be able to do it with the existing widget.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jul 5, 2011
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  8. shah

    Ingo

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    Guys,

    Just some clarity from another Comfort user might shed some light on the issue.

    Comfort has the ability to 'emulate' a keypad, this you know already by using the iphone application or any other software that can talk to Comfort. The emulation has actually two modes, one is called 'Arm Local' and the other 'Arm Remote'.

    The 'Arm Local' mode makes Comfort think that you are arming from a keypad that is local to the network, in other words, it might be something like a C-Touch which is mounted somewhere inside your house and behaves EXACTLY the same as a local Comfort keypad. If you now press the Arm key then it would want you to exit via the normal path and it will arm accordingly.

    The other mode is 'Arm Remote', in this mode Comfort knows you are NOT inside your house and that you are somewhere outside, at work perhaps. When you now Arm to Away mode it will not wait for you to exit, it knows you are outside and will bypass all open zones and arm irrespective. This is the mode you want if you are at work and forgot to arm the system.

    What we do with our ComfortClient software is have a little checkbox so that you can select which mode you want the widget/application to be in. If I am outside the house then I select the 'Arm Remote' checkbox, this then sends a slightly different arm command to Comfort and voila, it arms even if I have an upstairs window open. It announces the open zones just so I know it's not the front door I left open :)

    I hope this explains a real-world scenario a little better.

    Regards,
    Ingo
     
    Ingo, Jul 5, 2011
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  9. shah

    Colin

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    I use this function from my Iphone on a daily basis without issue of knowing if I am remote or local to the system.
    The above comments all seem quite valid in regards to overide of unsecured zones and local vs remote arming, However according to the documentation for the Comfort panel their is no option that allows it to treat C-Bus Arming commands as Remote, Thus this issue would require a solution from Comfort to implement support of remote arming using C-bus commands.

    In saying this, if all zones are secure and the the away arming method is not ?Final Door? then you should have no issue arming from your Iphone.

    According to the manaual for the Comfort panel their are two methods used in arming local (see Extract below).

    if Away Arming Method is ?Final Door?
    (Security > Arming & Disarming) then the system will not complete arming until the
    door is closed on the way out and all other protected circuits are not active. If Away
    Arming Method is ?After Entry Delay?, the system will arm after the Exit delay if all
    zones are not active.


    If it is suitable to your security needs i would suggest that the panel be setup to operate with the ?After Entry Delay? in order to solve your issue.

    Hope this has been helpful.
     
    Colin, Jul 6, 2011
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  10. shah

    slychiu

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    The CBus Security application itself does not have any provision for Remote Arming, so since Wiser only connects to Cbus, it would not be possible to send any command from Comfort to remote arm.
    Comfort's native protocol does have commands for Remote and Local arm.
     
    slychiu, Jul 7, 2011
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  11. shah

    shah

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    Guys,

    This issue was raised by one of my clients. FYI, Wiser is an adds-on equipment to his existing CBus system and many will highlight this as time goes by. He is used to 'Final door close' mode and he is hoping that by connecting to his iphone or ipad through 3g connection, he is able to arm his home in away mode without compromising the programming. But then as Mr Chiu has clarified, it is impossible to do this for now and I would go with Colin's suggestion by changing the mode to "After Entry Delay' and somehow I have to explain to him for some reasons that the normal method will not work.

    Regards
    Shah
     
    shah, Jul 7, 2011
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  12. shah

    kjayakumar

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    Here are 2 screenshots of the iPhone UI. What is your client clicking on? Surely, the following buttons: arm, away, night, day offer exactly what you need. Also, as Nick correctly pointed out, you should be raising this issue with the proper support channel if you feel confident that there is some functionality that is incorrect.
     

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    kjayakumar, Jul 8, 2011
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  13. shah

    shah

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    Hi Jaya,

    It happens if the phone is connected in 3g mode and when I pressed the away button, Minderpro will wait for the from door to be closed.
    Yes Jaya, I am going to raise this issue to the sales then, and I had thought that since this seemed to be a small and a simple matter, I needed only to post here as what I did for the rest of Toolkit issues. I was wrong. Sorry.
     
    shah, Jul 8, 2011
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  14. shah

    Colin

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    Such Functionality Would first need to be requested of Cytech development first,
    the C-bus Protocol for security has "(Optional) $03 ? $7F = other arm sub-types, manufacturers discretion" and Cytech already use these values for their Arm Away, Night, Day modes.

    Thus to make remote arm possible Cytech will first have to do the development at their end and make available the function. Then they will need to notify the manager of the C-bus Enabled Program in order to relay what they have done and how we can support it in our own products, Wiser will have to specifically be made to support such a change, or the change could be dealt with using logic in other products. until such time their is nothing that anyone in Clipsal development can do to resolve the issue.

    I am sorry, I too have the same panel in my own home and would love to use the final door feature, it is far better than timeout. but it is not a Clipsal C-Bus or Wiser Issue (Yet!)
     
    Colin, Jul 13, 2011
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  15. shah

    Colin

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    Although this suggestion is not perfect it may be possible. I have not been able to test it out first so, please don't take it as a working solution.

    It is possible to have a response set to trigger from the Start Arming event. it may be possible to use a timer and force arm event to force the system to arm.

    Since a Arm Fail event will occur if the final door is not triggered, then you could set a delay that is slightly shy of the arm fail timeout and force arm the panel.

    As i said its not a great solution because you will not get an immediate response back on the remote interface that the system is armed. but you may be able to maintain your customers ability to use the final door event for arming locally and still have the panel arm remotely all be it with a delay.

    I hope this helps, Please let me know if you decide to try this.
     
    Colin, Jul 13, 2011
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