Locating 5500CN

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by damo_sa, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. damo_sa

    damo_sa

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    Apologies first up, I know this question has been addressed several times but my 5500CN module is doing my head in. I don't know if my unit is faulty or if I am.

    I have had this set up (as per photo) for 7 years, the other day I decided to climb into the roof and bring down a Cat5 cable into my study and connect my router to the 5500CN as I can no longer connect to the serial port (computer doesn't have one).

    I have tried connecting directly to the 5500CN via plugging it into the NIC on my PC and plugging it into my router. The lights all appear to be the right colours, as soon as it plugs into the computer / router the lights flash between green / orange.

    I have used all the utilities to try and locate the IP address but it never finds anything, including the Lantronix Device Installer.

    Are the cables linking the RS232 to the 5500CN in the right order? Should the be connected to each other in that fashion? The two wires that go away from the module connect to other CBUS switches in an adjoining switch box.

    What else can I do to work out of the unit is faulty or just my attempts to communicate are not clever enough. Any help would be appreciated, I have spent several hours trying to get it to work before resorting to asking for help. I'm not overly familiar with how this all works, I've just been reading forums and trying Google.
    Thanks!
     

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    damo_sa, Apr 1, 2014
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  2. damo_sa

    Mr Mark

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    damo_sa, if the ethernet light is flashing between orange and green, cycle the power and try again. In my experience, flashing green and orange indicates it has locked up.

    Mark
     
    Mr Mark, Apr 1, 2014
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  3. damo_sa

    damo_sa

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    Thanks Mark, I tried your idea with baited breath, I've given the same advice numerous times myself I should have thought of it first, alas it didn't make any difference.

    With the ethernet cable connected to my router the ethernet LED on the 5500CN module flashes quickly between green and orange five times before staying green for about a second then repeats. The manual says flashing between green and orange says the link is good with active data transfer. I don't know what data is being transferred though. The manual also says constant orange means the communications link is good. I would think that's what I'm after in this case, with no software running.

    Hopefully someone has a great idea. I don't know how I can establish if the unit itself is faulty, or is that the only conclusion I can draw after so much testing?
     
    damo_sa, Apr 2, 2014
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  4. damo_sa

    bmerrick

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    Hi Damo,

    Have you checked:

    1. The voltage inbound from the power adapter? This runs the Ethernet.
    2. Was it on a different subnet before? Same addressing still as your current LAN?
    3. Was it a static address eg. 192.168.0.140? Is your PC IP address on the same subnet eg 192.168.0.100 etc?

    If all above is alright, the IP Utility (control system IP utility) should find it.

    Try it from your PC directly attached (as long as your PC is a self MDI/MDIX card otherwise you'll need a crossover ethernet cable). You may need to hard set the address on your PC as DHCP won't work on that interface when it's direct.

    Just a few ideas.

    Brad
     
    bmerrick, Apr 2, 2014
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  5. damo_sa

    chromus

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    Brad covered most of the stuff I would do.

    I assume you have checked the cable prior to installation?

    Checked there is enough IP's available in your DHCP pool on your router to include the extra device and that nothing is using the IP allocated to the unit if it is statically assigned.

    Based on the description I would be expecting it to be either a dud cable or the router can't allocate an IP within it's subnet to the unit (either static or dynamic)
     
    chromus, Apr 3, 2014
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  6. damo_sa

    damo_sa

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    Thanks Brad, the power adapter is 12V, 1 amp. The module was on a different network prior to being installed on mine, I have no idea what that subnet / IP range was though, it was many years ago. I believe my PC / router would be on a different IP range than the module, though my understanding was the Lantronix software was able to look beyond an IP range and discover anything connected to the network card, but so far it hasn't worked like that.

    I don't know what type of network card I have, it's quite a new computer, I know I don't have any crossover cables though, that is my next test to try one of them instead of a straight through Cat5 cable. I have tried connecting the Cat5 direct to the PC and through the router, but not a crossover cable yet.

    Thanks Chromus, I have plenty of IPs available in my pool, I have no idea what the IP of the 5500 module is though. The cable was working fine prior to being connected to the module, so I don't believe it's that.

    I'm only really a beginner at most of this, I have tried plugging the cable into the router and trying to find the 5500's MAC address by logging into the router but I can't see it connected.

    Thanks again for your suggestions, I'll acquire a crossover cable and do that next.
     
    damo_sa, Apr 3, 2014
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  7. damo_sa

    rhamer

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    If the CNI has a static IP set to a different subnet than your PC, and you don't know what it is, you need to use the ARP spoofing method to initially communicate with it and set the IP details for the new subnet.

    You can find the details on how to do it in the CNI installation documentation.

    Regards

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Apr 3, 2014
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  8. damo_sa

    damo_sa

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    I have all but given up hope now. I've used a crossover cable, it has made no difference. I've used the arp command and been able to set an IP address but when I ping it I get no response. I've copied some of the arp -a results below from my computer, it shows the CNI with a static IP, but it won't return a ping. I tried pinging it when connected directly to my PC or directly to my router, nothing. It's so frustrating!


    C:\Windows\system32>arp -a

    Interface: 192.168.0.18 --- 0x3
    Internet Address Physical Address Type
    192.168.0.60 00-20-4a-12-4f-89 static
    192.168.0.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
    224.0.0.2 01-00-5e-00-00-02 static
    224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
    224.0.0.251 01-00-5e-00-00-fb static
    224.0.0.252 01-00-5e-00-00-fc static
    239.255.255.250 01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa static
    255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static

    Interface: 192.168.56.1 --- 0xb
    Internet Address Physical Address Type
    192.168.0.50 00-20-4a-12-4f-89 static
    192.168.56.50 00-20-4a-12-4f-89 static

    192.168.56.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static
    224.0.0.2 01-00-5e-00-00-02 static
    224.0.0.22 01-00-5e-00-00-16 static
    224.0.0.251 01-00-5e-00-00-fb static
    224.0.0.252 01-00-5e-00-00-fc static
    239.255.255.250 01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa static
    255.255.255.255 ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff static

    C:\Windows\system32>
     
    damo_sa, Apr 4, 2014
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  9. damo_sa

    rhamer

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    Forget the ping, and just follow the ARP procedure exactly.

    It is not normal networking, and performs a bit of Lantronix magic when you do it.

    Looks like you have 2 network interfaces also, make it simpler by disabling one temporarily.

    Also in case it's not clear, once you have the temporary IP address in the ARP table, follow the telnet instructions to set a permanent address.

    Again, the telnet commands should be followed exactly, as they do a bit of magic as well.

    And lastly, if you power cycle the CNI or unplug the network cable, it will reset back to the IP settings it was before you started. So don't do it until you have finished the telnet step.

    Regards

    Rohan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
    rhamer, Apr 4, 2014
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  10. damo_sa

    damo_sa

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    Thanks Rohan, I did also run both DeviceInstaller and C-Bus IP Utility. Scans on both applications found nothing. I did follow the arp procedure as per the CNI manual. I tried it both on 192.168.0.60 (ROUTER) and 192.168.56.50 (PC). There is nothing more to do after that command other than running the DeviceInstaller, is there?

    As I say this is all pretty new, but the manual made good sense I thought, it did everything it should except work...

    Edit:
    Oh I didn't realise you had to do both arp and telnet, I thought it was one or the other. I'll try tomorrow, thanks very much!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
    damo_sa, Apr 4, 2014
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  11. damo_sa

    rhamer

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    See my edit above.

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Apr 4, 2014
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  12. damo_sa

    DarylMc

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    That CNI is light blue.
    I can't say I am in the know but it might be a new model.

    Can you check and provide the part number on it.
    If it is an updated version of 5500CN it may have a different procedure to the information on CIS web site.

    Also, it is possible to use your existing RS232 interface to connect via TCP with the addition of an Ethernet Device Server costing from $50 to $150.
    The ones I use ($150) are quite easy to set up and in my opinion less trouble to set up than the CNI.
    For a start they are able to use DHCP.
    That information is probably not so helpful since you have already bought a CNI.

    In any case I have found 5500CN to be a solid product once set up.
    No one needs to be tethered to the switchboard to access the CBus network when it can be done by Ethernet or wireless and I think every installation should have one.

    Regards
    Daryl
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2014
    DarylMc, Apr 4, 2014
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  13. damo_sa

    rhamer

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    The light blue modules are actually old units.

    They are series 1 units in DIN housings. That CNI would be one of the first.

    It also actually a serial PCI with a Lantronix Ethernet device server inside, and out of the box it is set to DHCP.

    The problem with this one is it has likely been set to a static IP address on a different (and unknown) subnet or it is faulty.

    Regards

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Apr 4, 2014
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  14. damo_sa

    DarylMc

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    Hi Rhamer
    Thanks for the info.
    My CNI units from 5 years ago were never able to operate on DHCP.
    The manuals back then suggested it was possible but that was incorrect.

    If that unit precedes the dark blue units there is every chance it is dead.
    The network interface on my CNI died after about 5 years.
     
    DarylMc, Apr 4, 2014
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  15. damo_sa

    bmerrick

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    Right thought there Daryl, but wrong direction. :p

    It's the really old pre C-Bus2 CNI. The early Cbus DIN modules were light blue and didn't have the CBus2 logo just CBus.

    Damo, Rohan's got the good oil going there so follow that for the best chance to get it back up and running.


    ....... and when you get to the end or Rohan's process and it's working (I think it will be as ARP seems to be working), please do consider Daryl's concerns on wiring segregation. No low voltage equipment (aka an Ethernet cable etc) is permitted in a switchboard without double insulation according to Aust.Elec.Wiring Standards. That's why the C-Bus pink cable has a mains rated outer sheath, normal Cat5/6 doesn't and so is not permitted in your switchboard (without another layer of protection). The 'old way' was to run the Ethernet lead (and the C-Bus cable in pre-pink cable days) into the switchboard inside corrugated conduit or small square duct.

    Daryl's other suggestion is about C-Bus rules whereby the pink cables appear to be running out the board parallel to 240V TPS cabling. There is also very little gap between 240V phase cables and the pink. Try to maximise that inter-system distance aiming for a min of about 60-80mm if at all possible. Cross 240vac cables at 90 degrees with a 60mm gap if possible. This reduces the AC noise induced in your C-Bus cables.

    If you get nowhere still, one further possibility to check would be to hard set your PC's interface to 10Mbps HALF DUPLEX. Modern PCs and routers now assume Full Duplex comms but often these really old Ethernet modules only did half duplex and so your comms is mucked up by continual collisions CS/CDMA doing its job as the router thinks it has a 'clear channel' to transmit whilst receiving, but it doesn't with half duplex. Auto-negotiation was basic in those days and so doesn't always work successfully and 10Mbps half duplex is the lowest common denominator of Ethernet speed for early 10BaseT hardware.

    All the best,

    Brad
     
    bmerrick, Apr 4, 2014
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  16. damo_sa

    bmerrick

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    HAHAHA :D

    too many cooks!! I need to type faster!! I'll leave you to it Rohan :p

    Have a good weekend guys,

    Brad
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
    bmerrick, Apr 4, 2014
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  17. damo_sa

    DarylMc

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    Hi Brad
    You are being too modest.
    But personally I think if it is an early version of the CNI there is every chance it is broken.
     
    DarylMc, Apr 4, 2014
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  18. damo_sa

    bmerrick

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    I obviously was typing way too long as Rohan answered in half the time :eek:

    I think you are right about the CNIs though from an age perspective, maybe they get less reliable when really old. The one in my house is about 10 years old now and just recently has started to be less than 100%. I probably shouldn't say here, but I pulled it apart, cleaned the internal board connectors, put it back together and it has been fine ever since (if your reading this, don't ever pull your modules apart!!! :p).

    Have a good one,

    Brad
     
    bmerrick, Apr 4, 2014
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  19. damo_sa

    rhamer

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    Yes, there is every possibility it is dead, especially if someone has plugged the C-Bus cable into its Ethernet port. I've seen that kill Ethernet ports quick smart.

    All the CNI's have been able to operate on DHCP, however you wouldn't set them up that way long term, as most (probably all) of the software that talks to them uses an IP address rather than a name.

    If the ARP/Telnet process doesn't work and you have a simple network setup, then the unit is broken.

    Regards

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Apr 4, 2014
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  20. damo_sa

    rhamer

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    No, it was me who jumped in on top.

    The ARP process for resetting these units does not seem to be well known/understood (probably because it is sort of specific to the Lantronix products) so I just wanted to make sure it was on the table as a possible solution.

    Anyway, I'm out of ideas, so back to you.

    Regards

    Rohan
     
    rhamer, Apr 4, 2014
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