LED under cabinet lights are flickering, will a load corrector resolve the issue?

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by KAJSER, Mar 21, 2024.

  1. KAJSER

    KAJSER

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    Hi guys,

    I have a L5508D1A dimmer unit with a circuit in the kitchen for under cabinet lighting. For safety purposes I need to use LED fittings (4 in total).

    The specifications of the LED light fittings (which have been confirmed as dimmable by the manufacturer) and the LED dimmable driver I'm trying to use can be seen in the links below:
    I have been trying to dim these LED's with my C-Bus eDLT and with Wiser2 but the dimming control is very poor. Confusingly, if I try to set the lights to 100% the bulbs are illuminated to around 2% and are nearly off.

    So I have now ordered a S31LCDA C-Bus Load Correction Device. Is this the appropriate course of action to address this issue? I am unable to really find any C-Bus compatible LED's that match my requirements and do not want to purchase a new generation C-Bus dimmer unit.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2024
    KAJSER, Mar 21, 2024
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  2. KAJSER

    Wonkey

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    This sounds like you have a programming error.
    Check the following
    Use the local toggle button on the dimmer to see if the LEDs fully illuminate.
    Make sure the Max setting for the channel is at 100%, you may decide to lower it the LEDs are too bright later.
    Temporarily connect an incandescent lamp to the channel, to see if that works.
    Try the LEDs on another programmed and working channel, just to eliminate the channel/programming or see if the LEds just aint going to work.
    The LCDA is a load correction device used to provide a minimum load for the channel, it should allow the LEDs to go out at 0% and can help with a smoother dimming curve, so not what your looking for to fix this problem but may still be needed when you figure out what's wrong
    I also noticed that the lamps are a tiny 1.9 watts each you have 4 of them therefore totalling 7.6 watts. The driver is rated at either 30 or 60 watts this in itself may be a compatibility issue.
    Also remember that the 5508D1A was designed to have a minimum 25 watt load on a channel.
    The LCDA may not correct such a small load
    If you don't need dimming or could do without it consider using a relay channel instead
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2024
    Wonkey, Mar 21, 2024
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  3. KAJSER

    KAJSER

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    I've tried incandescent lamps and there isn't an issue dimming them on the same channel.

    If I start with the eDLT dimmer at 100% there is nearly no light emitting, but if I press and hold the dimmer starting at off to around 25% light will come on and can be dimmed upwards for a while.

    If I do the reverse and start at a 100% and reduce back to 25% light will also come on at some stage, it is very odd in how it dims and makes for a very poor user experience.

    But the light does turn off when I switch off the dimmer. The issue just seems to be getting it to turn to 100% with one button press and to have a stable dimming capability.

    Is there anything I can program in the Dimmer, eDLT and Wiser2 to make this dimming more smooth and user friendly? Or are there any other solutions?
     
    KAJSER, Mar 21, 2024
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  4. KAJSER

    Wonkey

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    Unfortunately no

    Did you try the incandescent lamp and the LEDs connected at the same time.
    This would check minimum load capacity of the dimmer.
    Can you temporarily wire in a standard dimmer to see if the LEDs will dim (completely separate from C-Bus)
    Try and get hold of an older style leading edge dimmer as it may be closer in design to that of a C-Bus LE dimmer .
    I know these suggestion are not a fix but at least it would give you an idea if the LEds stand a chance of dimming
     
    Wonkey, Mar 21, 2024
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  5. KAJSER

    KAJSER

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    I don't have any incandescent lamps to hand but there is a FAQ on the C-Bus website about dimmer minimum load, I believe its >25W according to this: https://www.clipsal.com/faq/faq000196803

    And yes the LED's do dim with a standard dimmer.

    The eDLT is dimming the lights but the main issue now is that when I short press the eDLT button to turn lights on fully then the lights are almost off. I have to long press the button to dim the lights up to a suitable illumination.

    However, when the LED's are turned on via a scene they seem to ramp up to 100% with no problem, none of it makes sense..
     
    KAJSER, Mar 22, 2024
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  6. KAJSER

    Wonkey

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    Ok slightly different explanation to the issue than you gave first time, given this info please check in your eDLT it is programmed as shown below
    upload_2024-3-22_13-23-5.png

    The toggle dimmer will turn the load on to 100% where as the memory dimmer will store the last known level and return it to that when turned on.
    If this is unsuccessful can you use the log in tool kit and accurately comment in it what you did to issue the particular command please.
     
    Wonkey, Mar 22, 2024
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  7. KAJSER

    KAJSER

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    The original eDLT setting was on "Dimmer Down / Dimmer Up". I've tried with "Dimmer Down / Dimmer Up (Toggle)" and the result is exactly the same.

    Also, I've installed the load correction device but it does not seem to make much of a difference, can you check this image and tell me if I've installed it correctly?: https://i.imgur.com/iuzWfLQ.jpeg

    I'm slowly giving up now, I've tried 2 different kinds of LED brands and both dim poorly with flickering and issues. Can you tell me what is the cheapest 8 Channel C-Bus dimmer I could buy that is compatible with LED's and LED dimming?

    Thanks
     
    KAJSER, Mar 23, 2024
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  8. KAJSER

    Wonkey

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    Load correction device is connected correctly.
    Please check the Logs in toolkit to see if the correct commands are being issued
    It may also be worth while revisiting some of my previous comments to confirm that the LEDs and Dimmer actually work independently of each other

    SE have recently released a new dimmer for LEDs but I have no personal experience with it 5508D1D
    https://www.clipsal.com/products/sm...white-5508d1d?tab-document-1=0&itemno=5508D1D

    I can confirm that LED dimming is achievable with the type of dimmer you have, what I can't confirm is the load you have connected.

    Happy to continue to help let us know how you go.
    Colin
     
    Wonkey, Mar 23, 2024
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  9. KAJSER

    KAJSER

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    Please can you tell me how to access the tool kit logs? I can’t find where they are.

    If we can confirm what load is connected, how can we use that to solve the issue?

    Thanks.
     
    KAJSER, Mar 23, 2024
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  10. KAJSER

    Wonkey

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    Open and scan you network
    expand the tree to find the Log ensure the network is showing running
    upload_2024-3-23_21-4-20.png

    As you operate C-Bus ( turn on, off and Dim the LEDs) you should see something like this only do one button press and note what is recorded. pressing the manual overide on the Output unit does not issue a command on the network.

    upload_2024-3-23_21-6-11.png


    With regard to your other question I would like to know from a practical point of view that the LEDs can dim using a standard Leading Edge dimmer, use an old Leading Edge dimmer unit (10 years old) and connect it instead of the C-Bus dimmer, beg or borrow one from someone just to try it, I am not convinced that the Driver and LEDs you have draw enough current to successfully allow the Dimmer to operate.
    If the standard dimmer does not work try a standard light switch to confirm the wiring and Leds operate.
    Lets me know how you go.
    Colin
     
    Wonkey, Mar 23, 2024
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  11. KAJSER

    ashleigh Moderator

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    You could use a C-Bus to DALI gateway, and the use DALI drivers. Or alternatively, the best DALI to LED phase dimmer which comes from an Australian company :)
     
    ashleigh, Mar 24, 2024
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    Conformist and Wonkey like this.
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