LED review

Promised in an earlier thread to post up my findings on my evaluation of various brands and models of fixed style LED dimmable downlights. After doing a good amount of research I arrived at 3 brands Clipsal, Peirlite and Bright Green and purchased one of each model from my initial research evaluation.

Doing this for my eldest daughter and SIL who are about to start a new build here in Adelaide. For the sake of spending a couple of hundred dollars to arrive at the best outcome seemed to make a lot of sense. There is approx 60 down lights going into the house.

The brands/models are as follows

Clipsal LDC15WH 15W 4K
Clipsal LDC11WH 11W 4K
Peirlite ECOLED5/4K 14W 4K
Peirlite ECOLED1/3K 14W 3K
Bright Green D900 Curve 16W 3K

Used the same dimmer channel on a 5508D1A LE dimmer. Plugged and unplugged the LEDs so they were tested under the same conditions.

Wanted to evaluate how these performed over the dimmer range both up and down. Had a Clipsal load correction device on hand should there be any loading issues with just the one load connected.

I also have connect a Ness M1 system with a C-Bus interface that allows me to not only fire off preset levels but also via the eKeypad application connected to the M1 allowed me to see the % levels that each channel are set to.

Test One - From units set to off and via Clipsal keypad see if you can dim from 0%

Clipsal LDC15WH - Has a fire point rather than dim up. Approx 3% however the LED output seems closer to 20-25% output. Definitely not 3%
Clipsal LDC11WH - Has fire point rather than dim up. Approx 5% however the device requires a load correction device to work. (Clipsal 31LCDA). Without load correction connected if you dim down to 0% the unit is still just on but flickers. With the 31LCDA it extinguishes at 0%.

Peirlite ECOLED5/4K - Has a fires point rather than dim up from 0%,fires at around 12% but has a soft start when it does. Reality is by the time the LED has fired and you respond on the keypad button you are probably at around 30% again soft start. Quite acceptable.
Peirlite ECOLED1/3K - Same characteristic as the ECOLED5/4K same electronic drive different colour temp.

Bright Green D900 Curve - Has a fire point rather than dim up from 0%, at 7%. Requires load correction with single load flickers around 16% -18% without corrective load.

Test Two - From 0% ramp to 100% subjective linear performance over the range using keypad.

Clipsal LDC15WH - Fires at probably around 30% light output which is a bit harsh visually. Dim ramps very respectably from fire point to 100%. No flickering evident throughout the dim range.
Clipsal LDC11WH - ( with load correction doesn't play nicely - require 2 loads as a minimum) Reasonable soft start and linear through to 100%. No flickering evident throughout the dim range.

Peirlite ECOLED5/4K - Nice soft start and linear through the range with a slight pause after it fires. This is quite subtle and acceptable. No flickering evident throughout the dim range.
Peirlite ECOLED1/3K - Same characteristic as the ECOLED5/4K same electronic drive different colour temp.

Bright Green D900 Curve- Flickers quite noticeably a few times probably around 30%-40% mark, then quite linear through the rest of the range. (added load correction and the two did not play nicely from fire point to 75% flickers. 75% to 100% it settles and performs OK.

Test Three - From 100% ramp to zero via Clipsal keypad

Clipsal LDC15WH - Linear dim down to approx 15% where it stops and remains lit. Will not extinguish until anther short press of the key. Tried load correction made no difference to the performance. Not a desirable characteristic.
Clipsal LDC11WH - Linear dim down to approx 15% where it stops and remains lit. Will not extinguish until anther short press of the load key. Not a desirable characteristic. Requires load correction as it flickers even when channel is off.

Peirlite ECOLED5/4K - Linear dim with a very slight pause similar to what I mentioned in test two. Again quite subtle and acceptable. Dim downs nicely to zero output.
Peirlite ECOLED1/3K - Same characteristic as the ECOLED5/4K same electronic drive different colour temp.

Bright Green D900 Curve - Linear from 100% to approx 50% where it flickers a few times until it reaches approx 10% and stops at that point. will not dim down to 0%. Have to short press the load key to extinguish.

Summary

Whilst no LED tested was perfect on balance the Peirlite performed the best all round. Definitely usable in our application.

Some of the test are subjective in as much I had to estimate in some cases what I believed to be light output levels after the LEDs fired from zero.

The tests may have different characteristics if the Clipsal universal C-Bus dimmers were used? The 5508D1A has been chosen for the number of loads requiring dimming for our application.

Will have the test setup for a few weeks to come if anyone would like me to conduct any other tests I would be happy to oblige. Also if any member has any other Brands/Models in the fixed style LED dimmable downlights that you believe is worthy of evaluating please let me know.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Good post.. Thanks for that.. Some interesting points..

You should definately try out the Clipsal L960 12/15/28/37w range seeing as they are the ones clipsal say are officially CBus compatible..

 

Hi Roosta,

The kids are looking for the fixed sealed style. The L960 series is not their preferred style. As an aside just had a look at the pricing they are 5 times the price.....ouch.

Thanks for the suggestion all the same.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Hi Fleetz
Thanks for posting the information.

Depending on the number of individual channels required I still think the universal dimmer presents a reasonable value option.
For example Pierlite dimming specs allow many more lamps per channel on the universal dimmer.

I have 6 Pierlite Starburst in my office on the 8ch leading edge dimmer.
I don't use the dimming too much because the dimmer is right next to my desk and hums quite nicely once you start to dim them.
They ramp off on a sensor so the hum reminds me to wave my hand about if I have been stationary too long

Some were connected 1 per channel and some 2 per channel.
No 31LCDA required.
http://www.pierlite.com/in/63705/starburst#.U-S8lWccRaQ

They have been in for almost 3 years and I have been quite happy with them.
Very low dim levels down to nothing but 25% CBus level is as low as I would want to go.
They also clip into the MR16 holder of your choice.

I don't want to knock the product but 2 of the 6 lamps started flickering recently.
Not just on the dimmer even just plugged into a GPO.
They were replaced under warranty which was great.
I reckon they had done about 3000- 6000 hours and while I still think they are an excellent product and Pierlite a good supplier, it just goes to show some of the problems you can have with LED's.

That's not even taking into account dimming issues from various other brand of LED's and why I suggested using a relay approach when it is at all possible.

It's interesting that you also found the Pierlite products to operate well.

 

Hi Daryl,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I suppose my quest is to find out what the best option is for our kids new house build. When I say kids they are in their 30s which predates me! anyway to use my experience to offer up the most likely better solution for the style of light they prefer.

I evaluated a few years back (~2010 from memory) the Peirlite Starburst and wrote up my experience on the forum. It was very impressive and can recall at that time wiring up a spare 5508D1A dimmer channel and the FNQ Peirlite rep dropping in for a coffee while we compared the Starburst with the Osram Decostars IRC 35W halogen we were using.

They were very impressive as I recall at the time. Wind the clock 4 years on I am hopeful that technology and performance has improved? I have been trying to compare apples with apples in doing the comparisons. The Clipsal units selected to be fair do not claim at least in writing that they are C-Bus LE compatible. I was able to as our kids were in getting verbal "they work fine" from the Clipsal Power House folks. Needed to verify for myself hence going to the expense of buying some sample LEDs from my suspect list of brands and models.

Peirlite do list up the dimmer in a compatibility chart they have on their website, again needs to be verify by buying some samples and putting them to the test.

As I said in my original post welcome any other suggestions on possible candidates (thanks Roosta for putting the L960 forward. It is definitely not too late to evaluate any other unit on the preferred style.

Once I have evaluated the best of what currently is out there in the style the kids are desiring then my next step is load up (purchase) the maximum number of lamps they have planned on one load which is 6 and see how they load up and perform on a single channel. Check the performance across the dimming range, look at channel buzzing under loads etc and basically torture as much as possible over the coming month or so to see how they hold up. This may well set the minimum level to operate the LED at at set the 5508 accordingly. Let's see...

The build has not started yet, the kids are awaiting final engineering drawings but have council approval subject to finale drawing etc. So I have got in early as I realise this will take sometime and am happy to do as much research as possible ahead of time.

I currently have two of the Peirlite LED D/Ls that we are leaning too one cool white and one warm white (boy do colour temps between brands vary!) Just today I have been running these two up on the same channel and both track identical in performance which is encouraging. Once the kids have selected the colour temp they prefer I will buy another 5 to continue the evaluation.

I am encouraged thus far but there is a ways to go. From the research I have done to date the the Peirlite constant current 650mA driver seem key to what I am seeing in the performance stakes. Personally I believe the success is going to be in the driver. Let's see what happens as I load up 6 on one channel and start pushing these over time. My power bill will be a little higher this quarter!

Again welcome any other suggestions. Happy to feedback what I experience over the evaluation period....good, bad or indifferent if members are interested? I realise that the evaluation is narrow in the fact that we are only focussing on one style of fitting.

Maybe someone else will do a L960 and Starburst style of evaluation as both are stated as C-Bus LE compatible? For now I will just concentrate on the serious players in the style the kids are preferring.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

Continuing on....warm white Peirlite ECO 3K are the kids preferred colour temp so purchased 6 which enabled me to load 6 on one 5508 dimmer channel.

They performed exactly the same as my single load review posted earlier. 6 is the quoted maximum that Peirlite have on their dimmer compatibility chart. I the tested just for 2,3,4 loads and all worked as expected the same as 1 and 6. No load correction required on a single load either.

There was as I would have expected some triac/inductor buzzing on the dimmer when in dim mode. Only slight difference in buzzing going from 1 to 6 loads. Quiet as at 100%

Whilst they are not perfect the Peirlite's have performed exceptionally well on the LE 5508. I realise that the brands test probably will work exceptionally well too on universal dimmers but I need the density of 8 channels per modules currently have all 32 channels assigned on 4 x 5508 simply did not have the real estate to run 8 x 4 universals.

So don't rule the other LEDs I test out if you are happy to run universal.....you will have to do your own verification test thou. I am assuming they will work to an acceptable performance.

I am convinced that what I am seeing in performance between the brands is in the technology employed in the drivers. I tore the Peirlite and Clipsal drivers down and in my opinion there is a signification difference in the technologies used.

I will run the 6 Peirlite ECO for a couple of days at varying levels to complete the evaluation.

Fleetz

 

Just a follow up on the kids project house.

Installed 68 of the Pierlites ECO series IP44 and IP65 in both 3K and 4K color temps and from 1 to 6 combinations on standard 5508 leading edge dimmer packs and they have performed flawlessly since I commissioned the system in April this year.

They dim very nicely. No load correction device is required on a single LED unit. The evaluation proved to be most useful albeit lengthy and costly. The kids are thrilled with the final results.

Fleetz

 

Has anyone had any experience with the Osram Parathom Advanced dimmable LEDs on the 8-channel LE dimmers? Gettig some good feedback from local clipsal installers.

https://www.osram.com/osram_com/pro...dvanced-par16/index.jsp?productId=ZMP_1322286

 

Nicks comment on capacitance is really important the 5508DIA and 5504D2A can only handle 300nF of capacitance.
If you load the dimmer with more capacitance you run the risk of premature failure of the dimmer channel and even your LED drivers. Load it with a massive amount of capacitance and it can happen in minutes.
Therefore don't be temped to look at just the current rating of the LED's.
If you can find the input capacitance of the LED then use that, if not I would suggest staying a less than 6 units per channel, but even that is just best guess that the input capacitance is less than 50nF.

 

I think it is a good idea to follow manufacturers recommendations.
Osram and Philips usually mention in their dimming guidelines for want of actual figures not to load a dimmer with more than the equivalent halogen wattage for their LED and CFL products.
So for 50W halogen replacements I take that as max 4 LED's or CFL's on a 1A leading edge dimmer channel.
If you call Osram or Philips I think you will find they will not guarantee even that will work well on CBus dimmers.
For the LED's you linked, Osram states trailing edge dimmers are likely to give better results.
You can ignore all that and maybe get a result which works but I certainly would not.

Without capacitance data you are risking damage to the dimmer.
Unless the manufacturer can give specs for various CBus dimmers, min and max lamps per channel and minimum dimming levels you really are risking less than satisfactory operation.
Look for a manufacturer which provides data for your dimmer for example Pierlite.
Sticking with a GU10 lamp because that is what is there makes little sense to me cost wise.
Those Osram GU10 LED's don't give a lot of lumens for the wattage either.

 

Seems like a good place to mention some LED downlights that have been installed in my house.

The Sparky supplied MELEC MR multi 10W downlights.

When installed MELEC had a chart that showed they were compatible with C-bus L5508D1 dimmers, but had a caveat that said to test first. Cannot find that chart on their website anymore though. Called them to see what that was about and they advised that there are so many minor variations with the L5508D1 dimmer that they wouldn't guarantee they would work on all of them. But for the most part they should be ok with as little as two on a circuit. So took the punt.

My house has 4 L5508D1 dimmers and what I found kind of confirmed what MELEC were saying. I had 2 brand new dimmers, plus two that were older models that had been sitting in my spares/test kit for a number of years.

On the brand new dimmers the MR Multi's worked perfectly with two downlights on the circuit. No flicker at all and on all 3 selectable 'colours' too.

However on the older units different story. One one unit the problem I had was after a power outage the downlights would start to flash. One on, one off, one on, one off. If I powered up the circuit they would both come on and then turn off correctly when the circuit was powered down. Anyway quick call to MELEC and they said to try installing a 31LCDA on each circuit. Problem solved.

On the other old unit even the 31LCDA wouldn't work. BTW the other unit was not one of the teal coloured units, but a date of circa 2009.

So lead me to think about either replacing the dimmer or trying some new downlights to see if they made a difference. So decided to go down the path of some new lights. So purchased some Pierlite Asatra downlights, the ones that come with the diffuser rather than gimbal.

It was a good gamble as they work perfectly on the really old dimmer that I have. As one of the circuits on the old dimmer was in the lounge room I had to also replace the MR multi's on a second circuit which was on one of the newer dimmers, and again works perfectly.

Should also point out that the sparky when they wired the bathrooms installed single downlights over the shower, and rather than run them off the same circuit as the main bathroom light, thought I would want them connected to a spare channel on a dimmer.

With the MR multi's what would happen is they would run fine for a while but then start to glow and couldn't be turned off. Only way to fix it was to power down the dimmer. I tried a 31LCDA but didn't help, so replaced the MR multis with the Astara's and not had a problem since. Guess could have also had them rewired to a relay channel, but went down this path first.

So upshot MR Multi's mixed bag, but the Pierlite Astara diffused model, works well even with just a single unit.

Only 'problem' if you will with the Astara's is they are a single colour only, though the colour varies based on dim level, apparently to better replicate halogen globes. The colour is quite warm, so maybe only much use in residential applications.