L5508D1A with non dimmable LEDs

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with using non dimmable LED globes with the L5508D1A?

The idea is this...

Get rid of those energy guzzling incandescents. Grab those Philips 6W LED bulbs from Bunnings (non dimmable, 6W B22 220-240V 470 lumen). Change CBus programming to On/Off function only.

I guess it might (?) work, but I am concerned with the soft start function - that is effectively dimming it over a fraction of a second. Even so, could running a leading edge dimmer at full load only with non dimmable LED perhaps damage it or the globes?

The last thing I want is to spend $1000s on new dimmers or relays. Not an option. And obviously destroying existing dimmers is not desirable either.

In case anyone asks, I am not interested in getting higher wattage globes/downlights which are dimmable. I am seeking the absolutely lowest possible energy consumption - going off grid is the ultimate goal.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. The maximum number of 6W globes per channel I envisage in future would be perhaps 3.

 

Mate, if lowest power usage is the ultimate goal then u have to change from the dimmers to relays.. The dimmers have a continuous leak through of power even when off.. I know a guy that used cbus for offgrid control, and long term the dimmers chewed considerable power even when the loads were off..

Also my experience with putting non dimmable low power globes on dimmers was not good and often resulted in the load staying illuminated even when off due to the leak through of power..

 

Not a good idea, in my experience they will either not work at all, flicker severely or won't turn off.

Get dimmable globes or change to relays. Also note not all dimmable globes are C-Bus friendly, so get one to test before you buy a whole lot.

 

Hi robs electrical solutions

Putting non dimming LED's onto a dimmer is asking for trouble.
Using dimming compatible LED bulbs is probably not much better.

Maybe you could look at some of the more efficient halogen lamps in the interim before you go all out to reduce energy use.

Roosta's advice is good and using relays instead of dimmers makes lamp selection so much easier.

Here is a link to some halogen lamps for comparison to what you have.

http://www.philips.com.au/etc/phili...ctn=8727900894783,8727900894684,8718696482087

High efficiency halogen globes do save a bit of energy compared to incandescents of the past and there is no worries about compatibility with dimmers.

 

Echoing above, but I would watch on ebay, pick some secondhand relays up and swap your dimmers out, then sell your dimmers. You will probably find you have some cash left over from doing that to buy some globes!

I would be swapping your dimmers out, as by the sounds of things your light output is going to be so low you will never need to dim anyway!

 

Thanks for everyone's input.

My main concern is avoiding damage to the dimmers. While tinkering I'm not worried about flickering or lamps not turning off - that's easily fixed by reverting to filament type globes.

The vital question is has anyone actually done what I am contemplating AND blown a dimmer channel whilst doing so, or done it without damage? The answers will determine the course of my experimentation.

Note again the CBus programming changed to ON/OFF function only, not DIMMER function.

 

Trying a non dimming CFL did not damage my L5508D1A.
The risk is on you.
I think everyone has tried it at some stage and you should note there are 4 people here telling you not to bother.

 

Hi Rob,

Sorry to perhaps rain on your parade........ and add to Daryl and others warnings.

I recently attended a new client as a service call to find out why a light circuit had stopped working. Ended up the client's 'maintenance man' had started installing cheaper (but looked really really cheap!!) non-dimming CFLs as replacement for the similar small sized original quite expensive dimmable CFL bulbs from the light system provider. Light level was set by a scene from a Crestron pad and had it at either zero or 100 only ie no dimming.

The new CFLs blew the dimmer channel a few days after install and we were then forced to replace the module. This was however a L5504D2U universal dimmer.

All the best,

Brad

 

I hear you all and appreciate your experiences. But I don't like problems that I can't solve easily and cheaply. They nag at me.

Round 1 goes to the dimmer. After hearing that someone did not blow a dimmer by trying this, I tried it on my test setup. Severe flickering in OFF state. Didn't even bother turning it on. Perhaps one might stumble upon the needle in a haystack and find a random brand which (half) works, but probably futile.

Round 2, currently looking for dimmable LEDs. but when there's maybe 5 per fitting, wall lamps and/or table lamps thatsalotta globes! Too pricey. Probably will lose this round too.

Round 3 possible strategy - take Philips Master 7W MR16 with Osram Redback transformers (known to work well) and design/rewire fittings for diffused up/down lighting. (Because it is extra low voltage and not recessed fittings I believe it may comply with wiring rules - need to investigate further.)

Round 4 and up, ?????

 

For what it is worth, converting to MR16 doesn't sound like a good idea.
Completely different light source compared to a bulb.
Total capacitance of the transformers would need to be considered.

Before you go looking for some dimmable LED bulbs have a read of this document from Osram (keeping in mind L5508D1A is a leading edge dimmer).
It has a few general guidelines about dimming and channel loading which are also mentioned by Philips in their dimmable CFL documentation.
http://www.osram.com.au/media/resou...superstar-classic---dimming-compatibility.pdf

I called Osram about their dimmable LED bulb products last year.
It was not tested with CBus at that stage and probably in their own interest they did not recommend it at all.
5 dimmable LED bulbs is unlikely to be suitable on one L5508D1A channel.
If you read Osram's dimming guidelines it is in excess of their recommended equivalent wattage calculations.

Philips dimmable Tornado CFL has the same dimmer loading recommendations and 5 per channel would be too many for L5508D1A.

The common theme when considering dimmer loading is not to use the wattage of dimmable LED or CFL bulbs but their incandescent light output equivalent.
Even then it is just a guideline and not guaranteed to work.

This is from respected companies who actually supply information.
That is why I suggested going with something like the 28w Philips halogen globe or installing relays.

 

Hi Ashleigh
Thanks for the info.

I was looking at a few different brand LED bulb specs and was surprised to see the power factor at 0.5
I didn't realise something that low could be sold?
http://www.philips.com.au/c-p/8718696482780/led-led-bulb/specifications

 

Just a quick update...

I bought a couple of dimmable LED globes from Ikea.

The dimmable E27 bulb 600 lumen worked ok BUT it (or the dimmer channel) eventually "froze" and could not be turned on. Turning off the circuit breaker supplying the channel reset it (not necessary to power down the whole dimmer unit). This recurred several times. Since then I altered the programming to on/off function only and so far it has worked fine. As long as I can avoid the expense of replacing dimmers with relays, this is a good outcome. The globes are only $10.99.

The dimmable E14 candle 400 lumen flickers slightly at certain levels. Possibly changing the lowest dimming level would fix that. I'm sure reprogramming to on/off would work fine, but if you can still have dimming capability, why not!?!? These are $9.99.

 

Rob,

I just replaced a bunch of 50w halogens with LEDs. I did some testing and price comparison and ended up with Melec MR13s. These have worked perfectly and are significantly brighter than the halogens at a fraction of the power usage. You can get these for about $30 so not much more than the bulbs, however on my calculations with the bulbs blowing on the halogens and the extra power it pays itself off in about 2 yrs.

Glen

 

Glen

Can I confirm you are using the Melec MR13s with a dimmer (and if so the type)? I have 13 L5504D2U units running 50w halogens an would love to change to LEDs but the warnings from more knowledgeable people than me are a bit of a concern....

I have found that that dimming is not really a requirement so could easily make ON/OFF (I understand they still 'leak'). If I had my time over I would use relays.


Thanks

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew
You will want to know exactly how many fittings per dimmer channel on site if you are looking for a predictable result.

Perhaps give Melec a call and see if they will guarantee the suitability.

I found them helpful when I called previously and they do have some limited test results on their web site.

Pierlite also has some CBus compatible LED MR16 with spec sheets.

 

Thanks Daryl

Max down lights on a channel is 5x 50w. Some have four, most only 2. There are a few with just 1.

Have sent an email to them. They have the L5508D1A as ok so hopefully the L5504D2U will be too. My current cutout is 90m so their lights will fit nicely if they work.