L5501RBCP with Somfy Blind

Hi

First post although I have been reading the forum for a while now.

I'm in the process of stripping out all my X10 equipment and replacing with CBus, up to now this has gone quite well although having sold this to my other half on "total reliability" she is giving me grief as things are not 100% yet!

My first question is to do with the L5501RBCP Shutter Control Relay.

I purchased this for my existing Somfy bathroom blind as from various posts it seemed to be best solution.

The blind controller "GPS 800" seems very simple in that it has a 24v -/+ to the blind, on the 240v side Live & neutral in and then an up and down contact. I can bridge the live/Up or live/down and it moves in the relevant direction, however it will not stop until I break the supply.

So I have connected the up/down to the open/close on the L5501 and the blind moves until the failsafe value stops it.

But the problem is the blind needs more time to go up than it does to come down, an extra 2/3 seconds roughly.

Watching what happens when my DLT send a "shutter open" seems to suggest that the "Ramp" command is used so I tried a "ramp 254/49/8 255 12s" and "ramp 254/49/8 0 14s", but it starts the blind in the direction I want but the time element is ignored and it runs until the failsafe stops it. I only want fully open/closed not stopping part way etc.

Although an override from a button on a DLT would be a nice backup I ultimately want to send a command like the "Ramp" from my Homeseer system. I don't have a PAC or touch screens but I do have HomeSeer talking to CGate so I have some logic ability.

Can anyone suggest I how I can get this to operate correctly?

Thanks
Phil

 

The blind motor should have internal limit switches to set the total up/down travel so the failsafe value can be set a few seconds longer than the total travel time. It only really needs to be set accurately if you require proportional control as the shutter relay does this by timing. Setting the failsafe too long is also a bit annoying if you have toggle switches set (i.e. up stop down stop etc) as when the blind is stopped by its internal limit switches but the failsafe hasn't expired, pressing the button will cause the shutter relay to go to stop mode (as it can't tell that the blind has stopped), and you need a second press to reverse the direction. This can be a bit confusing for unwary users, but as with most people when they press a switch and nothing happens they invariably just press it again.

The shutter relay only responds to specific level commands, so the ramp component will be ignored as you discovered. Unlike other output devices (relays etc) where toggling is done by the switch, in the shutter relay toggling is perfomed by the shutter relay itself so for example if you set up a switch for shutter open/toggle, each press of the switch will just issue a set group to 99% and the shutter relay will alternate between open and stop etc.

Ashley

 

I have set the Failsafe to 12s and this works perfectly going down the first time, but when it goes up it stops shorter than I had it set, then the next 12s down goes past the required bottom level, and subsequantly the next up finishes even shorter.

The original switch I had supplied had some built in stops but it had this annoying overrun feature where it would always go a couple of turns extra as it was made to tension a projector screen. I always felt I was sold the wrong thing. Howeer I did get it working as I wanted by controlling it from outputs from my Comoft alarm with specific timing between on/offs.

This is what I am wondering now, change it use two relay channels and my HomeSeer can switch on/off with correct time for me, but I just wanted to ensure that L5501 wasn't fit for this purpose before abanding it.
Phil

 

How were you controlling the blind previously? Were you using the up/down inputs on the GPS 800 connected to momentary contacts? If we can understand how you were using the blind previously, we might be able to suggest something that emulates that behaviour.

I'm not familiar with this controller but am I correct in assuming that to open and close the blinds you need to press and hold the button, and then releasing the button stops the blinds? If you just give the button a short press and release, does it just run until the limit switch is reached (without requiring you to hold the button down)? Is there a separate button for stop, and if so, does it stop the blinds by connecting both the up and down inputs in parallel to Line?

Can you explain the issue with this? The shutter relay should be configured to have a Failsafe time of just a fraction longer than your longest blind travel time, otherwise you'll experience what you see where the blinds stop short in one direction.

This suggests that you're not using the limit switches. Is this correct?

Trying to do it all using timing in some other device will probably not give you exactly what you're after either, unless you can depend on a limit switch at one or both ends of the blind travel. If you don't use limit switches you might be able to get the timing close but over time your blinds will slowly accumulate the error in the timing and require a manual adjustment to correct it.

 

Hi Newman

Previously I was using dry contacts from my Comfort Alarm system to drive 240v relays which connected the up/down contacts on the controller for the required amount of time. This has worked reasonably well, but your right when you say I have to correct the positions two or three times a year.

I originally It came with a "SW10G X10 motor drive" switch and this had the stops built in but as mentioned before it also has the built in overrun so was useless for an internal blind.

The manual for the controller shows a up/down bell press style switch that you hold and release, I can confirm that a short press just moves the blind for that short duration the contact is made.

So with no built in stops I have to control the length of open/close travel therefore am I correct in saying with the Shutter Relay Module there is no way for me of activating the open/close for a set length of time that I choose and not relying on the failsafe?

I am beginning to think I should buy a new blind that does have stops!

Phil

 

Do yourself a big favour and buy a new motor with inbuilt limit switches. I have used theses before [ebay ID 120593253367] and you can just buy the motor, tube and mounts and move you existing fabric across to it. Works great with the shutter relay, but it's 240V so you'll need an electrician.

Ashley

 

Hi Ashley - how quiet are these motors, are they clunky or smooth?

 

If the only method you have for controlling the run-time of the blinds is by controlling the dry contact input to the controller, and you need a different run times for opening and closing, then the Shutter Relay is not the product you need if you want to persevere with this motor.

You could probably get away with using a Shutter Relay if you have a limit switch at the bottom of the travel, and then use the Failsafe time to determine how long to open the blinds. In this way the position of the blinds would effectively be re-set every time the blind was fully down.

You'd have more success using a conventional relay unit and controlling the run time using logic or key unit timers. If you use channels 1 and 2 of the relay unit, you'll be able to use the interlocking feature to help ensure that both the up and down contact don't get activated at the same time, however given you're using the original controller this is less important.

 

The motors are very smooth but not silent. The noise level varies the load you put on them (i.e. size of the blind). It's a combination of motor hum and gear noise which you can just hear over normal TV listening levels. Like most things, you don't notice it after a while. Can't really see it being an issue in a bathroom, especially if you have an exhaust fan running.

If you want silent blinds, prepare to pay a huge (x5) premium.

Ashley

 

Today I managed to get the proper manuals for both the controller and motor, never had these from the original HA supplier.

Turns out the motor has stops built in not the controller, so I set these up connected the shutter relay and all works a treat. After all these years of messing about with timmers

Thanks for everyones input
Phil

 

Great news! It was sounding pretty odd to have a motor without limit switches there for a while.

 

Out of curosity

From the motor is a cable for power. How does that penetrate the wall. Is there a plug and socket arrangement, or just a wall plate with BP connectors behind?

Never having seen an actual install, its one detail I am trying to work out.

Mick

 

Mick

Can't remember what the motor came with now but I have fitted a 3.5mm audio style plug & socket to mine so I can take the blind down when required. This is made slightly easier for me becuase around the window is an MDF decorative lining rather than plaster and I positioned the socket so it was hidden when the blind was fitted. Think if I where to be doing it now I would be able to source something much more suitable than the audio socket

Phil

 

Thanks

Obviously if you were doing an ELV install then this may suffice, but a LV install would not. I am trying to find a nice 4 pin plug for a 240V motor that can be mounted discretely behind the curtain

 

What about this?

 

I use these. Very neat and tidy. Can be mounted in any number of off the shelf or custom made blank plates.

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=2110941

Ashley