Is the L5508D1A fit for purpose ?

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by jbikkyou, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. jbikkyou

    jbikkyou

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    Having been persuaded to fit a Cbus system in a new development, I have discovered after the fact that the dimmer module leaks a forward current in the offstate leading to "ghost" lights on pretty much every circuit we have.

    I am now being told that I will have to fit an S31LCDA onto every dimming circuit to prevent this happening - at a cost of £17/circuit.

    I have been fobbed off with "LED's aren't compatible" but I call BS on this - as googling this issue - it appears its a well known item since at least 2005 - so am pretty annoyed that having fitted £2k's worth of light fittings and £6k's worth of Clipsal dimmers that I am being told now that they have to be matched up exactly or I have to break out all the feeds into a well ventilated box and spend another £1500 on "corrective" devices which aren't even guaranteed to correct the problem.

    I have a Lutron system in another development and none of these issues regardless of the number of bulbs or the off/dim state of the circuit.

    Anybody else feel this way ?
     
    jbikkyou, Mar 11, 2019
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  2. jbikkyou

    znelbok

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    The universal dimmer would be the correct dimmer to use today - its not new by any means and the information regarding the use of LED's on the D1A is well known.

    Whom ever did the design is the person you should be taking your complaints to - they should have known all the issues.

    If you did not spec the use of LED's in your design then it is hard to complain to them.

    Some LED's do play well with the D1A - I have quite a few in my house with only one channel being an issue at low dimmed levels.
     
    znelbok, Mar 12, 2019
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  3. jbikkyou

    Dave_F

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    Hi Mick,

    Is that with a low number of lights that you are having the issue?

    I am currently building and intending to use the D1A for cost and panel space. I have read that even the universal dimmer is not a true universal and that you may still have Issues.

    My current intention is to suck it and see, and then install the LCDA's on the circuits required.
     
    Dave_F, Mar 15, 2019
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  4. jbikkyou

    Matthew

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    It all comes down to the quality of the driver with the LED's. Being a C-bus / integration specialist, I know exactly which LED's to use on the D1A that will "fully turn off". But these are Australian products so little use in the UK.
     
    Matthew, Mar 18, 2019
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  5. jbikkyou

    Matthew

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    Don't forget the L5508D1A is an almost 20yr old product, it was designed for halogens long before LED's. Modern LED's have been modified to work on phase chop dimmers, which DC native LED's really do not like.
     
    Matthew, Mar 19, 2019
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  6. jbikkyou

    Dave_F

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    Hi Matthew,

    Any chance you'll let us in on what LED's you are referring to that will work on the D1A?

    Cheers mate :)
     
    Dave_F, Mar 19, 2019
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  7. jbikkyou

    71monaro

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    Also interested in the most likely to work A60 B22 bayonet LED globe. I have single globe in a room, single channel, and LED's I have tried, don't turn off ( they flash) Even after adding a 31LCDA that worked some of the time but more often not. Adding a halogen to the circuit in the ceiling space would work, but it seems to defeat the purpose, and is a fire hazard. Any possible items to try?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    71monaro, Mar 21, 2019
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  8. jbikkyou

    DarylMc

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    For a single BC bulb I’d move it to a relay output if possible.
    CIS tech support once told me to try multiple 31LCDA.
    Or maybe just try another 31LCDA.
    In my experience 31LCDA was often effective to cure off state flashing.
     
    DarylMc, Mar 21, 2019
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  9. jbikkyou

    max w

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    We use tend to fit Collingwood led fitting, they seem to work with no problems, avoid some of the cheeper brands.
    Any retrofit lamp may produce Ghosting at other lamps.
     
    max w, Mar 22, 2019
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  10. jbikkyou

    Matthew

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    Well I'm not going to give away all my acquired knowlegde, but I'll give you this for free: it's not any Haneco rubbish!
    In WA, your local Lumitex has the best stuff, works beautifully on C-Bus Universal Dimmers.
    While Lumitex do not have it as recommended, i've been unable to fault them on the C-Bus leading edge dimmers.
    Mercator "elias" is a good one.
    LEDVANCE (OSRAM) LED superstar Gimble downlight.
    Please Note ** This information should Not be taken as professional advice **
     
    Matthew, Mar 26, 2019
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  11. jbikkyou

    Matthew

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    Hi Monaro, Try the LEDVANCE "LED Performance stick" Dimmable versions Available in E27&B22d bases, 9W & 12W outputs, in 3K & 4K colour temps. Rexel seem most likely to stock them out of the wholesalers.

    Do NOT do This!!
     
    Matthew, Mar 26, 2019
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  12. jbikkyou

    71monaro

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    Thank you Matthew, will take your advice.
     
    71monaro, Mar 26, 2019
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  13. jbikkyou

    Matthew

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    I note you are in Adelaide, I have the 9W versions in warm white & cool white if you are interested, PM me.
     
    Matthew, Mar 30, 2019
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  14. jbikkyou

    more-solutions

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    Just to belatedly chip in with our own experience: We've had more success with the L5508D1A than the universal (possibly due to it not being configurable as to whether it is leading or trailing edge, but I'm not sure). We always cost on the assumption that load correction will be needed unless we know it won't be.
     
    more-solutions, May 23, 2019
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  15. jbikkyou

    jbikkyou

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    To be fair to Schneider they are now trying to work with us. However still seeing some ghosting issues after fitting the load corrector.

    However an LED solution should not be to choose the right LEDs (We used Scolmore Nanos which got great reviews) but to bring the modules up to date. As in my original post - with our Lutron phase adaptive dimmer modules never had an issue with any bulbs.
     
    jbikkyou, May 23, 2019
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  16. jbikkyou

    more-solutions

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    I think the problem is that mains dimming of LEDs is a fudge to make two different technologies work together. I have had problems with other mains dimming tech too.

    I'd like Clipsal to have a better solution (eg a dimmer design that isn't 20y old, even if the only change is to include load correction in some form). But a lot of LED fittings come with their own control gear using something like DALI for a good reason. (Better Clipsal interfaces to those other dimming technologies would be nice too!)
     
    more-solutions, May 23, 2019
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