Is Clipsal looking at its competition such as Nest when looking at product dev?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by poldim, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. poldim

    poldim

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    BACKGROUND: I bought a Nest for my mom's house because her Honeywell unit broke and I figured it would be good nerdy gadget to have. The problem occurred after I installed it. Between the ease of installation, setup on the unit, and control and monitoring through the Android app, I fell in love. Ended up buying and installing two for my home.

    Now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I want control of my temps in one UI I should stick with Clipsal thermostats. If I want awesome hardware / software I should stick with Nest. At this point in time, a few months since the original Android Wiser release, I still do not have fully functional control of my HVAC, but I'm being optimistic and hoping that will change.

    In its product development, is Clipsal looking at the best existing hardware/software solutions and trying to figure out how they can surpass the competition?
     
    poldim, Mar 31, 2013
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  2. poldim

    Charlie Crackle

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    Nest

    I saw one of these nest thermostats demo at the Cisco networkers conference. Very impressive.

    Cisco are estimating 10 billion new devices connecting to the Internet like this device in the next 10 years. Driving ipv6 as well. Just did a 5 day training course on ip version 6. People who think ip v6 is just ip v4 with more addresses are sadly wrong. It is a totally new protocol with the shortcoming of ipv4 fixed. No broadcasts. Arp a thing of the past. Best of all NO Nat. Which means people need to think about firewalls properly and not rely on Nat. Just noticed that BigPond cable is now supplying ipv6 addresses. Also Telstra big pond direct are routing v6 address now. I assume Clipsal have ip v6 support on the road map (next 2-3 years) Will this be new products to replace existing or firmware updates?
     
    Charlie Crackle, Apr 1, 2013
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  3. poldim

    joeel1

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    hi poldim...

    can you clarify when you said that you do not have fully functional control of HVAC on Android Application...

    do you mean, you founds bugs or the android app doesn give you controls as what the 'flash'/web app do?..

    cheers....
     
    joeel1, Apr 1, 2013
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  4. poldim

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Hi Charlie

    I've been hearing "IPv4 is dead" since at least 2005.

    I suppose one day it will die, but IPv6 has so been very over-hyped.

    There are a couple of big advantages of IPv4, routing, and NAT:

    1. It gives a very small "outside world" footprint - allowing businesses to implement single-point-of-entry-and-exit for themselves, quarantining network traffic, directing where their IT want (or where they can get a good deal), and implement internal private networks with well-defined points of entry / exit to the broader internet. I ASSUME IPv6 will permit similar, though it's not clear.

    (A huge address space is not always consistent with the goals of IT nazis).

    2. For the home user, NAT is a free, first-level-of-defence firewall. Using NAT you pretty much never get an attack from the outside onto a PC.

    (NAT by its nature just rejects everything that is not solicited from the private-land inside).

    ---

    Following on from 2... once upon a time my internet was a real proper address in the big nasty world, no NAT.

    I used to get probe attacks on average about every 40 seconds. Of course, this also costs $ in lost bandwidth.

    These days with NAT, I have never had a probe attack - not once.

    Yes, with IPv6, I can do neat things like put my printer, or my personal coke machine, on the internet for everyone to see. But so what? I don't want any and everyone to play with my printer or coke machine, and I don't really want to set up a special firewall and a whole lot of rules when NAT gives me all that private stuff now, for free.

    ---

    And this is the mentality that makes the uptake of IPv6 slow.

    Will it eventually take over? A definite maybe. There are a VAST number of IPv4-only devices out there, and still being sold, especially small embedded where you can get a basic IPv4 stack into about 4K it you try really really really hard. (and 16K by trying only a bit hard).

    (Though is no more ARP a good thing? Yes! ARP and the ARP cache are evil liddle beasties.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2013
    ashleigh, Apr 2, 2013
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  5. poldim

    Conformist

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    Ashleigh

    You have an IP based coke machine? Really? :eek:
     
    Conformist, Apr 2, 2013
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    Charlie Crackle

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    ashleigh. I used to think the same as you. But after understanding the new protocol and what is trying to be achieved. I am looking forward to ip v4 being a legacy protocol. Now that ipv6 is live and the big players like google are supporting it support will start to move slowly. In aus the ISP still have plenty of addresses. In china they have already run out. Content will drive adoption. Once there is ipv6 only content people will need to be dual stacked. Ipv6 also addresses scan attacks. With your ISP giving you a /64 address range for your devices. It would take an attacker days just to scan your 1 site. Ipv6 is designed for things not even thought of yet for the Internet.

    It will be like fax machines. They were not much use till a certain amount of people had them, but once they reach critical mass every business had one

    I am sure ipv4. Will be around for a long time
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2013
    Charlie Crackle, Apr 2, 2013
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  7. poldim

    poldim

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    I love your optimism. From everything I've seen, the industrial and automation industries move glacially slow compared to the IT industry which re-invents itself with every iteration of Moors law.
     
    poldim, Apr 3, 2013
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  8. poldim

    poldim

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    There's a ton of bugs. Look at the android wiser app thread.

    I tried to submit a bug report, but the place where I submitted the bug wasn't a tracker with any tracking ability nor have I seen any kind of correction. That was 2 months ago.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2013
    poldim, Apr 3, 2013
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  9. poldim

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Virtual, of course :D

    However, there are a lot of coke machines with IP (v4!!!) addresses, simply because it allows reporting when getting low on stock. Once upon a time they could use a dialup line.

    But you get my point: my printer, my wireless, my IP-reading of my solar installation, my chumby, my doo-dads, my PS3.... mine mine mine, everyone else can rack off!
     
    ashleigh, Apr 3, 2013
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  10. poldim

    kjayakumar

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    Poldim,

    Unfortunately, no bug report has come through. The thread you linked appears to be a generic one with your comment:
    "
    I was hoping that we would see some kind of update now that its been out for over a month. Not to add functionality, just to make the things in the app actually work. Whatever team or employee that created the app, kudos, but finish the job.
    "
    Perhaps you could point us to a specific explanation or description of the bug you're experiencing so that someone can take a look at it.

    Thanks!
     
    kjayakumar, Apr 4, 2013
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