Homegate V4

Discussion in 'C-Touch/HomeGate/SchedulePlus/PICED Software' started by Dirk, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Dirk

    Dirk

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    I have just installed the new Homegate V4 and realized after that a dongle is now required. Can you answer the following questions for me:

    1. is there an upgrade cost for the dongle or V4?
    2. I am using a tablet pc (wall mounted) to run Homegate currently. Does this mean I now have to have a dongle sticking out of the tablet PC for it to work?
    3. why would anyone introduce old technology such as a dongle? Most software developers eliminated dongles years ago.

    There are some nice new features in 4.0 but maybe I need to go without these and stick to 3.9.

    Dirk
     
    Dirk, Nov 30, 2007
    #1
  2. Dirk

    KERRAW

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    Old Dongle - Can I upgrade

    I totally agree with the fact that a Dongle is the most outdated and inconvenient method of securing software. Apart from the fact that the Parallel port is starting to become obsolete, these do not even exist on my tablet PC.

    I did run Homegate using a dongle but this is not recognised with the new version. Does that mean I have spent all this money to find that my software now becomes obsolete with a single upgrade ?

    What do I do ?

    Gus
     
    KERRAW, Dec 9, 2007
    #2
  3. Dirk

    Conformist

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    First of all, the dongle used on V4 is a USB device, which is found on most PC's. Whilst it may seem an outdated method of software protection, it works better than software keys which are hacked regularly. I can assure you all, the decision to go to a USB dongle was given great consideration and was not a cheap exercise.

    Version 4 is not an upgrade. It's a new version...dare I say a leap from XP to Vista (without the BSOD) . It would have been nice to rename the software but with V4 applying to the different suites, this became more trouble than it was worth.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2007
    Conformist, Dec 9, 2007
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  4. Dirk

    Dirk

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    Just to add further to this HomeGate V4 issue. I have just found out from my supplier that there is indeed no upgrade from 3.9 but I need to purchase the product again. :mad: I also have to purchase a 2 network license when I only run one network. :mad: and I also cant purchase it until the end of January 2008 :mad: :mad:

    As far as the dongle goes I don't really care but why can't the dongle be part of C-Gate. I run this on another PC and then I wont need a dongle on the tablet PC mounted on the wall. It was mentioned that adding the dongle was not a cheap exercise, is that why we are being forced to purchase a new version. I agree there are some nice enhancements in V4, but I don't think they are extensive enough to warrants a new license charge.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2007
    Dirk, Dec 10, 2007
    #4
  5. Dirk

    lcrowhurst

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    Is CIS still going to provide support/bug fixes for Homegate 3.9?

    I agree with statement above there doesnt seem to be much to justify it being called a whole new product. Or maybe Ive missed the MCE interface, the full web broser interface, integrated media library to enhance the distributed audio,the integration with other products etc :(
     
    lcrowhurst, Dec 11, 2007
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  6. Dirk

    nickrusanov

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    we used homegate for Samsung Q1. it made Q1 perfect wireless touchscreen.

    I cannot see any wireless touchscreen solutions in C-Bus now, as this dongle makes it impossible.
     
    nickrusanov, Dec 20, 2007
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  7. Dirk

    bmerrick

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    Agree Wholeheartedly with Dirk re Dongles



    Hi CIS,

    I want to add my voice to the consternation about the new version of Homegate being dongled. This is really not a suitable solution for people trying to make a neat solution using tablet PCs, wireless tablets, POS terminal etc as these usually have hidden USB sockets, or has them sticking out the side or back at 90 degrees making them inconvenient and ugly. Even worse are hidden front ones requiring a USB key sticking out of your wall.

    Maybe an initial dongle required to install software or check for software authenticity etc, would be OK but not while running the program. This will make existing users seek other software solutions to once again restore that neat looking solution and others are getting close in function.

    If this cost you a lot of money to implement, I suggest a refund!!!! Dongles and dinosaurs are buried together.

    Also, when can I get an upgrade version and an electrical store who knows how to order it. Been waiting a few weeks now in my area.
     
    bmerrick, Dec 23, 2007
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  8. Dirk

    wanricky

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    I am not a programmer so take this as a joke: Why can't your software look for a specific piece of information from a C-bus hardware and treat it as a key instead? In another word it is a din rail C-Bus dongle located in the panel. Since it is C-Bus communications, maybe you can have methods of verifying more dynamic codes generated from the hardware. I know hacking is always possible but sometimes it is the same route stopping people using a product and hacking a product. Honestly if people would like to spend a lot of time cracking your key, your product would have been very popular and sold a lot....
     
    wanricky, Dec 24, 2007
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  9. Dirk

    filpee

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    CIS seemed to have decided that a dongle was the way to go along time ago.

    People on this forum whinged that the lpt dongle (printer port) was dated and they were finding it hard to get a pc with the required port.

    Most suggested that they switch to usb or stop using a dongle.

    Unfortunatly they switched to a usb dongle.

    I dont think CIS will change their mind anytime soon so we will have to find alternative means of install.

    The best I can suggest for tight spots is to use a short an extension cable and locate the dongle away from the actual socket.

    Good luck guys and gals
     
    filpee, Dec 24, 2007
    #9
  10. Dirk

    msniper

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    No Upgrade to V4

    This is a disgrace on the part of CIS. It is far from a new product, it is barely even a full dot point upgrade. Regardless of that, CIS provided an upgrade fom V2 to V3 so why not V3 to V4. I purchased HG3 only a few months ago and now I need to buy the whole thing again - not right, but typical Clipsal. If upgrade assurance was available, I would have taken it. I intend to take this up with Clipsal..
     
    msniper, Jan 16, 2008
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  11. Dirk

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Actually, V4 of Schedule Plus, etc, is the biggest update ever to this product range.

    If the V3.x series does what you want, then continue to use it.

    If you absolutely must have V4 and have only just bought V3, then talk nicely to your sales people. Your dated invoice might help to make a suitable case.

    No promises mind.
     
    ashleigh, Jan 16, 2008
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  12. Dirk

    scott d

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    I am just curious to know if anyone does, why was v3.9 homegate not realeased wth the shutter control tool as per toolkit and piced?? Is this only on V4 homegate???
     
    scott d, Jan 21, 2008
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  13. Dirk

    NickD Moderator

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    It was really just a matter of timing... there a literally hundreds of small features on the list to add in, some make it, some don't.

    This one is not a big deal though. If you look at the microfuntions that are setup for the curtain control macrofunctions in Toolkit, it's very simple to set the same thing up using the Preset function on a button in PICED/Homegate. It's really just a convenience thing.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Jan 21, 2008
    #13
  14. Dirk

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Formerly the dongles were used with cgate to do licensing. This presented a number of problems, and it ultimately meant that this approach had to be abandoned.

    Seeing as you have a tablet AND ALSO another PC (running C-Gate), here is what I suggest you do:

    - Run Homegate + cgate on your pc-in-the-closet
    - Run VNC server on the pc-in-the-closet
    - Run a VNC client on the tablet

    You will find a number of FREE VNC products available for download. My personal favourite is RealVNC. Google it, and find the download. You get a registration page but you can ignore it.

    Set the VNC client up in the start menu, use no passwords, and you should be in business with a remote display.

    Another advantage - if you use the right VNC package you can use MULTIPLE remote displays to a single HomeGate.
     
    ashleigh, Jan 22, 2008
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  15. Dirk

    Nathan

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    Vnc

    Im not sold on the VNC as there is to much refreshing needed to produce graphics that would be noticed to a end user. Im not a fan of the dongle either. For me its pushing me away from Homegate to use other products like Digital Homeware. Also when are the dongle due to be released along with the blind shutter relays. Blind shutter relays were NOV then Dec is there anyone that knows the true date of the release of these and dongles as I have exhausted the CIS sales chain and still no dates yet.
     
    Nathan, Jan 22, 2008
    #15
  16. Dirk

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Dongles are available right now when you order Homegate 4 or SchedulePlus 4.

    Shutter relay: not sure, very very soon.
     
    ashleigh, Jan 22, 2008
    #16
  17. Dirk

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Re VNC: Yes it refreshes, and sometimes its a bit slow, especially over ADSL lines.

    Over local ethernet or wireless LAN at about 10 to 50 Mbits/sec it should be fine.

    Another alternative is to use Microsofts Remote Desktop connection - if the back-end PC runs WinXP. I have found Remote Desktop to be a lot LESS bandwidth hungry than VNC. Remote Desktop Connection clients are built into WinXP (as is the server, you have to enable it though). The client is also available from Microsoft as a free download.

    Most of these remote display things, if used for screen resolutions of about 800 x 600 (which is still common) should be OK and have little or no noticable effect on performance.

    VNC will allow multiple clients, Remote Desktop will not.

    These days for various reasons I use them both, a lot, and I'm very impressed with both.
     
    ashleigh, Jan 22, 2008
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  18. Dirk

    mikegriff

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    So how do we get Homegate Ver 4 in the UK Ashleigh?
    From what i can see you also can't run Piced ver 4.1.0 with Homegate 3.9
    I don't mind paying ;-) At present you have left us not being able to use Colour Houch Homegate and Comfort/Minder
    Those which upgraded to Piced Ver 4+ have had to do a lot of work re programming Piced and Comfort/Minder and whilst stoping for a coffee, turning of Homegate!
    Mike
     
    mikegriff, Jan 26, 2008
    #18
  19. Dirk

    ashleigh Moderator

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    In UK: beat up your salesman!! It IS RELEASED!
     
    ashleigh, Jan 27, 2008
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  20. Dirk

    muppets

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    I was about to purchase an i-mate or similar for my business and thought it'd be great to run homegate through it both wirelessly and over next g however after reading this thread I will most certainly not be in any hurry to. Why would I want to walk around with my mobile phone connected to a dongle.

    Can anyone tell me if homegate can access cbus through WAN and wireless ip directly to the cni or does it need to connect to a computer then access the cni.

    I am running a touch screen and have no want to set up a pc to do the same thing only worse (without touch).

    As for the dongle, I don't want to purchase the product while this is required.

    CIS please heed the advice of the people you are targetting as customers; should a software protection be hacked lets say you lose 20% of your income from the software, how much more did you make when that same person chose to use Clipsal hardware instead of some other system. Why not opt for a subscription fee for the software and use new patches and charged tech support to encourage payment.

    Better yet live updates through registration! Ongoing income without having to put together a completely new build!

    I am about to shell out another thousand for our MYOB package in order to retain our patches and tech support cover for another year.

    PS After spending $50k on our display system I don't feel concerned paying for a product that would be of benefit.
     
    muppets, Mar 24, 2008
    #20
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