Homegate keeps losing sync

Discussion in 'C-Touch/HomeGate/SchedulePlus/PICED Software' started by mikegriff, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. mikegriff

    mikegriff

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    My Homegate keeps losing sync with the rest of my CBus nework
    I also have a Colour C-Touch, PAC, 2 mk1 Black & White touch screens
    There is also a Cytech Comfort C-bus Sim (homeminder?)
    All running latest software and firmware.

    Using the Diagnostic Utility everything looks OK
    Homegate works fine for 30 odd Mins then it seems to lose sync
    Even though everything is reporting to be ok via the logic system checks for Network state etc
    The C-gate shows orphaned units :-(
    I know it is something my end but!
    Any hints of what to look for?
    Also why does C-Touch and PAC sync instantly to the Cbus network and C-gate / Homegate crawl through the sync in 2 Mins?

    thanks in advance
    Mike
    PS Homegate is a new addition to this install and is the only thing using C-gate

    copy of Cgate

    Clipsal C-Gate(TM) v2.7.1 (build 2267)
    20090407-095047 800 cgate - C-Gate started.
    20090407-095047 803 cmd1 - Host:/127.0.0.1 opened command interface from port: 3813
    20090407-095107 751 //MGU - Tag information changed at tag address: //MGU/Installation oldtag: null newtag: null
    20090407-095107 742 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Network created type=Serial address=COM4
    20090407-095140 803 cmd5 - Host:/127.0.0.1 opened command interface from port: 3814
    20090407-100853 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 16 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-102442 836 //MGU/254/p/90 8632d770-6973-1027-bcd7-d8d416ca010d unit configuration changed (2 changes)
    20090407-110433 836 //MGU/254/p/90 8632d770-6973-1027-bcd7-d8d416ca010d unit configuration changed (2 changes)
    20090407-112337 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 11 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-112346 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 150 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-113240 751 //MGU - Tag information changed at tag address: //MGU/!9f8e0ab0-6972-1027-bc27-d8d416ca010d oldtag: null newtag: null
    20090407-113240 751 //MGU - Tag information changed at tag address: //MGU/!5847ffb0-058d-102c-bfff-bd6217f4ed47 oldtag: null newtag: null
    20090407-113240 751 //MGU - Tag information changed at tag address: //MGU/!5847ffb0-058d-102c-bfff-bd6217f4ed47 oldtag: null newtag: Group 172
    20090407-114317 836 //MGU/254/p/90 8632d770-6973-1027-bcd7-d8d416ca010d unit configuration changed (2 changes)
    20090407-115352 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 7 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-120634 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 9 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-120644 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 153 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-120655 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 33 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-120713 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 153 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-122249 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 7 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-122301 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 9 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090407-122421 836 //MGU/254/p/90 8632d770-6973-1027-bcd7-d8d416ca010d unit configuration changed (2 changes)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2009
    mikegriff, Apr 7, 2009
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  2. mikegriff

    Darren Senior Member

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    What do you mean by "losing sync"? Do you mean that a network goes from the "OK" state to the "Error" state, or the "sync" state, or something else?

    That is a good start.

    The attached log doesn't really contain what we need to make a diagnosis. We really need a C-Gate event level 9 log and a HomeGate log for the same period showing the error occurring. These logs can be rather big, so either:
    1. Send the whole lot to Tech Support and get them to look at it (they will probably pass it on to me); OR
    2. Use the Tools | Filter Log File function to extract just the time of interest from the logs and post that.

    C-Gate does a much more comprehensive modelling of the C-Bus network and hence it takes a lot longer.
     
    Darren, Apr 8, 2009
    #2
  3. mikegriff

    mikegriff

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    Thanks for this Darren

    Losing sync:

    At some point Homegate seems to not track changes.
    So it shows lights on and people in the house which arent
    closing down both Homegate and Cgate and restarting sync to the true state

    Whilst in the "un sync" state
    the status bar at bottom = 1/1 networks on-line
    And Via logic
    Logic runing = true
    Network OK = true
    CBus State = true
    Cbus connection = true

    the only thing I can spot in the level line logs is the reference to:

    "20090407-170517 734 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d response: 8609FB008116DF
    20090407-170517 840 //MGU/254 9eda9930-6972-1027-bc22-d8d416ca010d Orphaned command reply for unit 9 (suggests unit address conflict)"

    but this can happen whilst Homegate is OK

    I'll keep looking for a proper level 9 log during a known loss of sync

    Thanks
    Mike
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2009
    mikegriff, Apr 8, 2009
    #3
  4. mikegriff

    Darren Senior Member

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    This sounds a bit like a problem which was experienced a couple of years ago, but which seemed to be resolved.

    When it happens next, take note of whether communications work in either direction. If you click on a component in HomeGate, see if the level changes on C-Bus. If you change a level on C-Bus (using a key switch), see if the new level is shown in HomeGate.

    You can use the "C-Gate Test" function to continually check to see if C-Gate is responding. See the "C-Bus Project" help file topic for details.
     
    Darren, Apr 8, 2009
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  5. mikegriff

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Is this running the latest version of HomeGate?

    The orphaned command replies you see lead me to think not...
     
    ashleigh, Apr 8, 2009
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  6. mikegriff

    mikegriff

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    Hi Ashleigh
    Yes all lasted versions
    But I have been thinking along the same lines as you - prompted by Darren's comments about an old fault
    The PC Homegate and c-gate are running on is
    a) Old
    b) Homegate and C-gate have been constantly upgraded

    I'm tonight trying a clean install on another machine to see what happens

    Having of course moved the dongle across
    I'll report

    thanks for the interest
    Mike
     
    mikegriff, Apr 8, 2009
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  7. mikegriff

    mikegriff

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    Hi Ashleigh
    I'm still having problems with the above faults :(
    Tech support have advised I should :-
    be seeking help from your local Schneider office.

    So i'm really on my own

    You said before
    Is this running the latest version of HomeGate?

    The orphaned command replies you see lead me to think not...

    Is there anything I can do to chase the fault of the orphaned commands

    I still get them

    My main Problem is that Homegate never loses sync when I'm watching it!!!

    thanks in advance
    Mike
     
    mikegriff, May 18, 2009
    #7
  8. mikegriff

    abg

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    Mike

    This probably won't help solve your issues but it may remove what may be a possible 'non-problem'......

    Regarding the 'orphaned command reply...possible unit address conflict' error - I get these constantly but it seems to have no effect on the running of the system (I am also running HomeGate 4.6 with C-Gate 2.7.1 build 2267). I have two networks (bridged) with 99 units on one and 31 units on the other.

    See the thread below:

    http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4432

    Andrew

    Post: I shutdown HomeGate and Toolkit on other computers and restarted the computer running C-Gate (which is all this one does) and within a minute or two the "Orphaned command reply...." error appeared, so it seems this is related only to C-Gate. Is there any update on the status of this message (#11313)?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2009
    abg, May 19, 2009
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  9. mikegriff

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Suggestions:

    1. On the homegate machine (I'm assuming Homegate 4.x here), upgrade the Toolkit install to the latest ver 1.10.4. This will update the version of cgate so any recent fixes will have been applied.

    2. If there are still orphaned command replies appearing in the cgate logs, find the unit address (if you can't, paste the FULL text of the orphaned command reply here and we'll help). Next, identify what that unit is (using Toolkit and your network scan), and tell us what unit it is. Also tell us the unit type and its firmware version number (Toolkit again for this info). This may all give clues.

    3. Common causes for these types of faults are wiring. 95% of all problems (and thats not an exaggeration) come back to basic wiring faults. The bus, and often cgate, are quite tolerant of little mistakes and the symptoms can sometimes be rather strange.

    Steps 1 & 2 first because inspecting wiring can be slow and tedious. It may yet come down to that, but some more info from the latest cgate is the way to go for now.

    --------

    Late Edit: You may need a HomeGate service pack that is coming. You can try rolling back, I think to HomeGate 4.4 and see if that sorts it out. Otherwise... wait a bit longer. Hopefully a week or two for the SP to be out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2009
    ashleigh, May 19, 2009
    #9
  10. mikegriff

    mikegriff

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    thanks Ashleigh
    I'l investigate more this end
    And try to be patient for the SP to arrive
    Mike
     
    mikegriff, May 19, 2009
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  11. mikegriff

    Maurits Roos

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    Hi Guys I am having the same problems on one off my sites that I am running home gate on a PC for remote Access losing sync all the time. I have run diagnostic utility and can?t see more errors than what I would class an normal, will try some off the above and report how I get on
     
    Maurits Roos, May 19, 2009
    #11
  12. mikegriff

    ashleigh Moderator

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    What version of HomeGate?

    You may need the service pack - version 4.6.1.
     
    ashleigh, May 20, 2009
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  13. mikegriff

    Darren Senior Member

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    Darren, May 20, 2009
    #13
  14. mikegriff

    daniel C-Busser Moderator

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    Hi Andrew,

    The fix for issue #11313 was released in C-Gate 2.7.0 build 2262 (shipped with Toolkit 1.10.0 in December 2008), which was to remove the "Orphaned command reply" messages that were produced when some newer units were present on the network.

    This does not mean that this message will disappear completely from your logs. To get technical, "Orphaned command reply" simply means C-Gate received a response it wasn't expecting, and can't match up to a command that it sent out. So it is considered normal behaviour in say a network unravel when two units exist at one address. The first responding unit is accepted, and the second responding unit triggers this message. C-Gate then proceeds during the unravel to sort this out.

    ONLY if you are still seeing these messages and the network subsequently goes into error, is it something that needs to be looked into further... see ashleigh and Darren's earlier posts for further details.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2009
    daniel, May 26, 2009
    #14
  15. mikegriff

    abg

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    Orphaned Command Reply

    Thanks Daniel.

    Just noticed that all the 'orphaned command reply' messages I am getting seem to be related to the PCI (which I don't use, but it is connected to both the the C-Bus network and to the PC via the RS232 port->USB on computer with Dontronics connector). I always connect using a CNI (not sure if these units are treated differently or error 840 applies to both).

    See below:

    Clipsal C-Gate(TM) v2.7.1 (build 2271)
    20090527-101210 800 cgate - C-Gate started.
    20090527-101212 751 //DUFFYS - Tag information changed at tag address: //DUFFYS/Installation oldtag: null newtag: null
    20090527-101212 742 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Network created type=CNI address=192.168.0.50:20023
    20090527-101212 742 //DUFFYS/253 df016590-3b63-102b-943b-be70376c55b4 Network created type=Bridge address=254/p/253
    20090527-101537 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 51 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-101552 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 52 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-101610 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 54 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-102019 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 49 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-102538 803 cmd3 - Host:/192.168.0.22 opened command interface from port: 63862
    20090527-102541 751 //DUFFYS - Tag information changed at tag address: //DUFFYS/Installation oldtag: null newtag: null
    20090527-102553 803 cmd5 - Host:/192.168.0.22 opened command interface from port: 63864
    20090527-115630 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 28 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-115640 840 //DUFFYS/253 df016590-3b63-102b-943b-be70376c55b4 Orphaned command reply for unit 187 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-122739 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 44 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-122803 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 49 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-123658 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 24 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-131000 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 50 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-131433 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 47 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-133551 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 46 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-135534 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 46 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-135549 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 21 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-140201 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 42 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-140625 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 20 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-155417 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 20 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-163308 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 28 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-163841 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 43 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-165822 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 24 (suggests unit address conflict)
    20090527-172412 840 //DUFFYS/254 1cd82dd0-2e27-102b-a575-f83a22138aca Orphaned command reply for unit 20 (suggests unit address conflict)

    I have disconnected the PCI from the network so hopefully these message will go away.

    Andrew
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2009
    abg, May 27, 2009
    #15
  16. mikegriff

    Maurits Roos

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    Hi Guys

    I think I have got to the bottom of my losing sync problem I am running MRA on this site it appears that if a MRA device does not have power from the matrix or Power supply but is still connected to CBUS you can still see it if you do a scan. But you can?t download to it if it has now power. If it is on the network with no power Homegate/Cgate appears to see it as an error and this appears to be causing it to continually resync the network. As this customer is using homegate for remote access via server x and when he is away from home turns all his audio devises (including the matrix switches) of to save power consequently homegate is never working because it is always resyncing the network

    Any ideas to get around this problem
     
    Maurits Roos, Jun 8, 2009
    #16
  17. mikegriff

    ashleigh Moderator

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    This makes perfect sense. The cbus interface part of the MRA amps can be found during the scan. The portion on the other side of the cbus interface can't (it's powered off).

    There are three solutions:

    1. Live with it. After all, it is reporting the truth (the device is not fully operational).

    2. Turn the amps on. (Probably not really acceptable).

    3. Log a defect and change the scan process so that MRA amps are not considered to be in error if they are only half present.

    Option 3 is the best for your case, the trouble is there will be other customers who complain that in the event of an MRA system failure, the sync process does not correctly detect it!

    It's a bit of a no-win situation. I'll discuss. My preference is option 3 even though there is some downside to it. If done, this will be an update to cgate in a future release of toolkit.

    (option 3 ref #17073)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2009
    ashleigh, Jun 8, 2009
    #17
  18. mikegriff

    Maurits Roos

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    Could this be somthing that you could turn on or off in the configeration file in cgate similer to the loging just a thought
     
    Maurits Roos, Jun 17, 2009
    #18
  19. mikegriff

    ashleigh Moderator

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    Yet another configuration option....

    Its probably best to just handle it as cleanly as possible (the portion that's not on the bus can't be seen but this is a non-fatal condition).

    Trouble with too many options is you die a slow and horrible death trying to figure out what they all are.
     
    ashleigh, Jul 16, 2009
    #19
  20. mikegriff

    Ron Powell

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    Syn problem

    Hi guys, thought I'd add my bit. I've had the same MRA problem with Schedule plus. Another solution is to run toolkit in the background as it forces the sync. Homegate/Schedule plus works immediately you scan the network with toolkit.
    I have a touch screen schedule turning off power to all the stereo equipment including the matrix switcher and amps.
     
    Ron Powell, Aug 18, 2009
    #20
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