Home Safe Sealed and Unsealed Cbus messages

Discussion in 'Homesafe & Security Access & Control' started by Charlie Crackle, May 23, 2010.

  1. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    I have a job were they would like to turn on and off the pantry and WIR light when the door opens and closes.

    I have 6 spare inputs on the Homesafe so I thaught I would wire them to the alarm and then use the CBUS part of the Homesafe to turn the lights on and off.


    Problems...

    1) there is no option for Turning the light ON and OFF depending on the zone status.
    There is a Unsealed and turn ON but there is no Sealed and Turn off.
    Is there any way do do this ?

    2) If I disable the input as far as the alarm is concerned. (so the alarm will arm with the Panty door left open) the CBUS messages stop.

    Is there any way to disable as far as the alarm is concerned but still get the cbus messages.


    What I did notice when I was debugging was that when the alarm is armed you get Sealed and Unsealed messages on the Security application but these dont happen when the alarm is disarmed.
    These would be perfect as I could put this in the lighting application with some logic in the PAC.
    Is there a way to enable the security application sealed and unsealed messages when the alarm is not armed.
    Is there a way to enable the security appication sealed and unsealed messages when the alarm has these inputs disabled as far as the alarm is concerned.

    Charles
     
    Charlie Crackle, May 23, 2010
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  2. Charlie Crackle

    Ingo

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    Charles,

    If HomeSafe is the same as Comfort, the old Minder Pro, then it will work easily. I did exactly that in my house, I just went a bit further, I programmed a timer to shut the light off if 'madam' leaves the pantry door open for longer than 10 minutes.

    There is both an ON and OFF response you can execute from Comfort. My On response sends a CBus message to switch the light on and obviously the opposite if you close the door. Select the zone to be 'SwitchNC' and if the switch opens, that means the door is open, then execute the ON response and Voila, all working perfectly.

    As for the question of the alarm, I can't remember if it will trigger any alarm if opened - it probably will. It WILL however be announced as an open zone when arming so keep the door closed, it keeps the kids out of the cookie jar as well :).

    Ingo
     
    Ingo, May 23, 2010
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  3. Charlie Crackle

    slychiu

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    Unfortunately, Homesafe is not the same as Comfort or Minder Pro. Homesafe is a completely different product by another manufacturer. As Ingo says, Comfort can do the logic to link the zones with the lighting and Time of day or duration as well
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2010
    slychiu, May 24, 2010
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  4. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    If this is not a CIS product whos product is it ?? I thaught the c-bus side was... who do you ring for technical support for homesafe ?

    Charles
     
    Charlie Crackle, May 24, 2010
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  5. Charlie Crackle

    slychiu

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    Sorry for confusing you. I meant that Comfort are Homesafe are not the same product. I would assume Homesafe support is still by CIS
     
    slychiu, May 25, 2010
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  6. Charlie Crackle

    Newman

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    You call Clipsal Technical Support. That's the "brand on the tin" so that's who you call.
     
    Newman, Jun 7, 2010
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  7. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    I rang CIS support. Was told it could not be done.

    There is no Sealed and Turn off.

    There is NO way to make a group address follow the state of the zone input on the alarm.

    There are sealed and unsealed messages on the security application but these ONLY appear to work when the alarm is ARMED



    Wish List for CIS to send to NESS....
    ================================

    1) Add "Sealed and Turn off." or "Sealed and Unsealed Off/On" option
    2) Security Application Sealed and Unsealed work when alarm is disarmed
    3) Cbus messages still transmitt even when ZONE is disabled as far as alarm is concerned.
    4) A way to control the 4 AUX output relays from cbus.
    5) A way to turn off and on the back light on the keypads from cbus (great feature when keypads installed in bed rooms)

    Thanks

    Charles
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2010
    Charlie Crackle, Jun 21, 2010
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  8. Charlie Crackle

    slychiu

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    I know it probably does not help you in your current job, but Comfort which is a CBus-enabled product (MinderPro in some countries) is able to do all that you require

    Sealed and Unsealed group addresses in the Security Application work even when the alarm is disarmed

    Supports Zone Application 1 where each address is mapped to a zone, so Cbus knows the state of alll zones at any time (Sealed and Unsealed gives the state of the last zone changed)

    Any security event including system armed to Away, Night, Day, or disarmed, any of 31 alarms, zone open or closed, is able to send commands to Cbus to control multiple group addresses at any time.

    Time Programs scheduling is able to control Cbus.

    Cbus is able to control Comfort outputs, IR signals and anything else on Comfort.

    Built in Logic engine with Sunrise/sunset times and automatic daylight saving time changes.
     
    slychiu, Jun 22, 2010
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  9. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    Well it seems the NESS M1 can do all these things has the Cbus interface

    Just got stuck again as no wiser wigit to support the M1.

    Do you think Clipsal will get NESS to add these features to the Home safe panel. (as this already has a wigit)


    I talked to NESS representitive and he said just buy an M1 !


    Charles
     
    Charlie Crackle, Jul 7, 2010
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  10. Charlie Crackle

    Ashley

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    I wouldn't race out to buy an M1 without serious consideration and testing. It too only outputs zone messages via the C-Bus inteface when armed. I understand the issue is saturating the C-bus with zone messages as people continually trip zones. It is possible to write rules to get C-Bus groups to follow M1 zone statuses, but these wouldn't appear on the security application and hence wouldn't work with the Wiser widgets. You would also have to write a seperate rule for each zone. The M1 C-Bus interface also has a number of bugs like broadcasting zone violations on disabled and non-alarm inputs, plus it implements the C-Bus security protocol poorly and incompletely. Ness say it is a certified C-Bus product, but if this is true Clipsal need to revisit their certification process. I spent a couple of weeks trying to get a useful display on a colout c-touch without much success so the chance of an M1 wiser widget is slim (although I would be pleased to be proven wrong :) )
     
    Ashley, Jul 8, 2010
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  11. Charlie Crackle

    Charlie Crackle

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    Thanks for the info for the M1

    I agree the cbus message flooding could be a problem.

    if they implemented the

    1) Add "Sealed and Turn off." or "Sealed and Unsealed Off/On" option

    then could only setup on the NON PIR inputs.

    or have a disable check box for all zones so that you can disable this for PIRs
     
    Charlie Crackle, Jul 8, 2010
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