HELP - Ctouch 1.2 >> PICED 3.3 file conversion disaster !

Hi guys, Help please !

I just loaded PICED and wanted to open an old Ctouch file because a couple were crashing C-touch v1.2.

Couldn't find any way to Import the old Ctouch files, so I selected File > Convert Files. It gave me a warning asking me if i wanted to do it.. and I selected YES.

Then it prompted me for a filename, so I selected ONE backup (copy) XML file that I wanted to look at in PICED. I had only made 1 copy, and (in retrospect stupidly) left it in the same folder as the originals.

Then BAMMO - PICED recursively converted every single XML file in that directory (and every sub-directory) from XML to CTD.

** THIS IS BAD BAD PROGRAMMING ! The dialog should not prompt for a Filename (which I specifically provided it) and then proceed to recursively load every file in the directories! Try it, you'll see what I mean.

WORSE - It didn't leave the originals (as backups) in the Ctouch\Projects folder then create new CTD files in the PICED\Projects folder. It deleted all my C-touch XML files ! ALSO VERY VERY BAD PROGRAMMING !

This was NOT the behaviour of v2 > Toolkit project file Import / Export, and I dumbly assumed that Ctouch > PICED would act the same way...

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Suffice to say, I am now completely and utterly stuffed - I don't know how to use PICED, and cannot go back to C-touch because it can't load CTD files (and every single XML file is gone).

I am very very upset and angry and freaked out, especially at 5.40pm and I have to be on site & re-programming a Touchscreen at 7.30am tommorrow !

No, I did not make a backup of ALL my files because there was NOTHING that indicated that I was just about to LOOSE ALL my files ! I only made a backup of the one file i wanted to load into PICED.

Ok, I do have backup XML's stored in individual Project archives elsewhere and also on the main server, but it's going to take me quite some time to round them all up, sort out the versions and "re-create" my Ctouch Projects directory again ! And what would happen to the majority of users who don't backup their stuff properly... ?

Some may ask why I need to keep Ctouch if I have PICED. I deliberately didn't install the Beta versions, and keep reading of various (pretty major) bugs in PICED. I decided that today was the day to take the leap... But I don't know how to use PICED yet, every single one of my projects out there is in Ctouch format - GRRRR I am so angry !

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1) How can I revert ? - I need to work on some screens, like "now"... I can't see any menu item in PICED to export from CTD to XML...

2) If not, please someone give me a quick tutorial on how I am going to work on the projects - I understand (although it's nowhere I can find in the PICED Help file) that I need to upgrade screen firmware (most screens have v1.9) in order to use PICED data ? How safe is that ? I am absolutely scared to death that I'm about to lose everything and have to way of fixing it!

3) The programmers REALLY need to do something about the way that PICED does that "file conversion". It is extremely bad practice for ANY "newer version" software to not leave backup copies of old data files...
- Please fix this in the next release !

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated - please help get me out of the s**t !

Thanks, John
(ranting and raving but slowing down now)

 

You don't actually need to "import" the files. You can just open them with PICED.

If you had clicked on the help button for this warning message, you would have seen :

To change the Project files, click on Yes, then :
- select a directory to have all of its files, and those in its sub-directories, converted
- click on the Open button
- a list of all files converted will then be displayed.

I guess this doesn't help you now

It is actually prompting you for a folder, not a file name. This should be made clearer.

When in doubt, read the help file. That is what it is there for.

Don't panic yet. All the process has done is to rename *.xml to *.ctd. You can manually re-name the file if you want to go back to the C-Touch Configuration software (but do it before you edit it with PICED as the file format is not forward compatible).

The PICED software is pretty much the same as the old C-Touch Configuration software, but with lots of new features. If you can use C-Touch Configuration software, you should have no problems with PICED.

 

Thanks Darren, I appreciate the fast reply (although I was unable to read it until now).

Firstly, let me state that I admit was rushing when I made the "mistake", however there's still some valuable lessons to be learned from it.

If that is the case, then there is absolutely no need for that "Convert" routine. Why not delete that option and just make it a whole lot clearer in the various dialogs that the older C-touch files can be opened?

For example, currently the Open dialog says "Project Files(*.xml, *.ctd, *.cte)" etc. Why not rename that "PICED Project Files" and take *.xml OUT of that option. Then make a new option "C-touch Project Files (*.xml)". That would make things MUCH clearer for me at least.

Remember, we Users have no way of knowing that the *.xml mentioned in the PICED dialog refers to *.xml files generated by C-touch.

Fair enough I guess, but nothing indicated to me that I'd need "help". My understanding of what was going to happen was completely different to what occurred. As you can see from my post, that is what freaked me out.

There are always issues with using the Windows File > Open dialog to select folders (I know this from my own programming). You should be using a different dialog (maybe custom), and definitely not that one. The fact that I was presented by that File Open dialog was one of the main reasons I didn't go back and look at the Help button.

Yeah yeah, RTFM. Well, you must remember that Developers work with and see the software all day... we users don't. Furthermore, before I started playing with it I DID read the Help file quite extensively, but couldn't find anything about C-touch. I just spent another 30mins or so searching the Help File and found :

a) There is no subject in Contents regarding upgrading from Ctouch to PICED

b) There's only 1 reference to C-touch in the Index, and that is about Hardware.

c) I couldn't find anything from Find (miniumum database size), by searching "C-touch".

d) There is only ONE instance of file compatibility mentioned, and it's on the File Formats page.

So, you have one reference fairly well hidden in there - and nothing I could find about how to upgrade from C-touch to PICED ! If it is there (or there is some separate document) then I would really appreciate a link to it.

Thanks heavens for that !

However, I stand by my original comments that the routine is WRONG. Even if all it is doing is changing a file extension, the (seemingly useless and un-needed) "convert" process should :
a) Leave the original files as they are, and where they are !
b) Copy those files to the PICED \ Projects folder, perhaps in a new "Converted Projects" sub-folder
c) Change the file extension of the COPIED files.

One more very important thing :

You and I have File Extensions visible in Windows, but you can bet that a vast majority of people DO NOT. Therefore, they would not see *.xml in their filenames and would be unable to determine that the C-touch files are *.xml. Therefore, the PICED File > Open dialog mentioning *.xml means nothing to them...

I hope you take this as constructive criticism. If an experienced computer user like myself can get "tripped up" by the software, then you can guarantee that there is an issue there that needs looking at...

Thanks, John

 

We needed to change the file extension for C-Touch, HomeGate and Schedule Plus from .xml to .ctd so that we could have a file association between the file and the software (amongst other things). The software still needed to be able to read old files and the new ones, so *.xml and *.ctd needed to be in the file open dialogue. To reduce confusion with having both types of files the same folder and users not knowing which was which, the "file convert" renames them so you only see one lot of files.

This will be replaced.

It wasn't there because there is no "upgrade" process as such. I understand your confusion, and some changes have been made to the V3.4 help file.

I think that the reasons for the way it was done are right, but it should have been better explained and more obvious what was happening. By the way, the way it was done was what our customers asked for...