Have I created a problem?

I have a PIR connected to a four-channel auxiliary input which in turn switches a group on/off. The auxiliary unit works like a push-button because the PIR stays on for thirty seconds. That works fine and is rock-solid.

I have now added a beam-break detector which talks to Comfort (aka Minder I believe). Upon the beam breaking, Comfort issues a Group On command (for the same group as the PIR) and then thirty seconds later issues a Group Off. Again, that works fine and is rock solid.

However, the two together do not work exactly as expected.......

The beam break turns the group on and then turns it off again thirty seconds later as expected. But, once that has happened, the PIR does not seem able to turn the group on until two or three minutes has passed. After that, the PIR starts to work as normal again.

I am thinking it must be something to do (perhaps) with the Aux input unit getting confused by the Group On then Off from Comfort and needing a while to get itself back in step?

Ideas welcome.. Thanks,

Nick

 

Nick

Seems to work fine here, tested using a current production auxiliary input unit and a PCI.

What is the manufacture date on your L5504AUX? What are your key microfunctions? Can you hear the relay in the PIR actually go *click* but the group doesn't come on?

 

Thanks for the prompt response. I haven't managed to get the manufacture date yet (not easy to get at the unit), but it is firmware 1.2.67. I'm using the standard "bell press" settings, so:

Short Press ON
Short Release OFF
Long Press ON
Long Release OFF

Yes, the PIR clicks - in fact there is a little relay between the PIR and the Aux input (the only way I could find to sort out both ends being open collector) and that is operating as I would expect.

I have attached a log of what is going on but, to my half-empty mind it doesn't seem to tell me much.

Cheers,

Nick

 

A bit more information, but still confused....

The problem seems to arise when the Aux Input is told to switch the group on when it has already been switched on by Comfort.

I have been watching the Application Log. I see Group On (from Comfort), but no second Group On (from the aux input). Not sure whether this is by design - that the aux input doesn't need to issue the "on" because it "knows" that the group is already on.

The next thing that happens is that Comfort issues an "off".

Once that sequence of events has happened, the Aux Input seems to ignore all suggestions that it should issue an "on" for the next couple of minutes.

After that, all is well again.

Thanks,

Nick

 

This is correct, if the Group Address is already On then the Aux Input unit doesn't bother to send out the On command. This helps keep the network traffic down.

My testing works as follows, with a current production L5504AUX unit:

1. On command from PCI (simulating comfort) - Group Address turns On.
2. Contacts closed on DIN Aux Input unit - No C-Bus message as group is already On.
3. Off command from PCI - Group Address turns Off
4. Open contacts on Aux Input - No C-Bus message as group is already Off.
5. Close contacts on Aux Input - Aux Input unit transmits an On command to turn the group address On.

This is all correct behaviour. Are you observing something different to this? Bear in mind that if the Aux contacts are closed but a C-Bus device has turned the Group Off then the Aux won't re-transmit an On command until it's contacts are opened and then closed again. If the unit always forced the state of the Group Address then race conditions could be set up and the network would become clagged with traffic.

 

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. The only difference I am seeing is that "number 5" in your list doesn't happen until a couple of minutes has passed.

Before we go any further, I think I need to get my meter out and double check exactly what is happening - to make sure that something unexpected isn't going on there.

I'll post again when I have done that. Thanks again, Nick.

 

Clarify

Just to clear up where the prob is it may be worth trying this:

Change the GA from Comfort to something else

put that new GA in the Logic field for that same relay channel as the PIR/BusC and select OR logic function.

Now when either the Comfort or the PIR/BusC issue a On or Off comand it will be clear what is occuring (and I suspect that using this method will solve whatever the problem is/was you may noit want to bother looking any further)

Andy do you think this is an MMI thing where the PIR is turning the GA off and the comfort is taking time to catch up or where the GA is turned off by the comfort and the PIR/BusC is still on?

 

No, I don't think so. But the use of OR logic, as suggested, should overcome whatever problem is being experienced, as independent control of the Groups appears to be working fine. Good recommendation.

 

Thanks Guys !

I have just tried the suggestion of using logic. It now works like a dream so I need look no further. Many, many thanks for your help.

Interesting to see that, while celebrating, I used Toolkit to switch on the fan above my head -- and noticed that the PCI Interface (from toolkit) still reports itself as Comfort, as discussed here http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=853 !!

Cheers,

Nick