Fans - Trying to find a compatible fan... why so difficult!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by impact, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. impact

    impact

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    Wanting to install a low profile ceiling fan with led light in a bedroom... House is already fully cbus wired, and the bedroom light is already on a dimmer.

    I do have a fan control relay L5501RFCP sitting in the spare parts chest, and it will be easy to add this to the home and wire to the bedroom - you would think it would be simple...

    Google search to find a low profile fan with led light - so far so good, found two, then searched for the manuals...

    Martec have a suitable one -> https://www.martecaustralia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/MFF-instruction-manual.pdf
    - Checking the wiring it looks do-able... A Common Neutral, and a seperate Live for the fan and light
    - However someone is trying to be too smart, dimmable means turn the light switch off, back on with a second and it cycles through 3 options of brightnees... Nah I like to ramp, and I like to control things better

    Fanco seems to also have one -> https://www.fanco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/manuals/studio-manual.pdf
    - Checking the wiring - its just one live, one neutral to the unit, via the remote which somehow controls 8 levels of dimming and fan speed

    Everything seems to be over complex, google / alexa control, bluetooth remotes... All trying to be too smart and interfere with my cbus plans....

    Seems as usual - myself being the early adopter of cbus, still getting caught in lack of design and integration that it just cant control everything in a house - or just basics...

    Yes I probably dont mind programming some bluetooth controlled device on cbus to control the fan and speed - but I already have a dimmer, and want to continue using that...

    I need a solution that I can press the light switch I already have on the wall, for the fan light to come on - I am not wanting to do that via some remote that will get lost...

    So is anybody even bothering with cbus controlled fans or given up on the idea... Any other low profile models that might be easier to modify ?

    Just frustrated!
     
    impact, Jan 9, 2021
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  2. impact

    DarylMc

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    One other thing is to make sure your dimmer and the fan relay draw their power from the same RCD protected circuit.
    Otherwise you will need to run two neutrals and separate the neutral wiring inside the fan.
     
    DarylMc, Jan 9, 2021
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  3. impact

    chromus

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    I don’t have these issues.

    I have 4 ceiling fans on sweep controllers. The symptoms you indicate sound like the LED drivers are pretty low quality.

    Swap the driver out for a quality meanwell dimmable driver and bypass the internal LED driver wiring. You will need a licensed sparky to do that if you aren’t suitably qualified.

    edit: make sure to get a driver that supports the type of dimmer you have there are trailing edge and universal dimmers that CBUS use and you will need to make sure they matchup.
     
    chromus, Jan 10, 2021
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  4. impact

    impact

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    Thanks Guys...

    Yup, DaryMc - learned that the hard way, years ago... why wouldnt that work - oh neutral went to a different RCD - not sure technically why that happens, and getting too old to think that out! But certainly was aware of that.

    Chromus - Yea - thought of that too... but who knows if I could find a driver in the right dimensions that I could retro fit...

    All good points and help - and appreciate it....

    Today upon reflection - I am leaning towards just a low profile fan with no light, one that I can properly control through a sweep controller, and installing proper downlights on the existing light circuit - that way I get proper control over dimming, and control on the fan...

    I need to see where the roof bearers are, do some calculations on placement of the led downlights - so they are not going to cause shadows as the fan spins.... psychedelic affect in a kids bedroom - she will never sleep there again!!!
     
    impact, Jan 10, 2021
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  5. impact

    chromus

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    The driver could go in the ceiling no need to fit it inside the unit.
     
    chromus, Jan 10, 2021
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  6. impact

    impact

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    chromus - thanks... So True...

    Was hoping to get a DC Motor model - any of those with a light, appear to be led with color changing - able to change from warm to cool... Concerned the logic on the leds and its compatibility with a 3rd party driver - not sure how these new fangled leds work... So risk there in replacing the driver... Could end up having to replace all the leds...

    My other thought is these dc motors are mostly 6 speed... I can only do 3 speed on a cbus sweep... Guessing the new fangled dc motors use logic and not capacitance to control speed...

    My new thought is - and maybe I over think all this... I have homebridge... if I can interface homebridge to the supplied fan app (some use this tuya app and others are proprietary)... Then I might just be able to have cbus control homebridge through some fake switches and get some control...

    But that does not seem to be a goer - most npn's for homebridge I have looked at - dont support tuya fans - other things yes, fans no... My issues grow - find something low profile, with or without light, and has an integration point somewhere - so at least I get some control from cbus....

    Need to solve this as I potentially want to install 6-10 fans in the house this year!

    Just wish home automation had a lot more openness and compatibility with each other!
     
    impact, Jan 11, 2021
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  7. impact

    chromus

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    The DC motors will use likely use PWM for control, it’s the most energy efficient and simplest to implement as it has less heat to dissipate that other methods.

    You may want to look at Homebridge. It has CBUS and a bunch of other plugins and they can be programmed to follow each other’s commands.
     
    chromus, Jan 11, 2021
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  8. impact

    chromus

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    Head down to the voice control section to see what it’s about .
     
    chromus, Jan 11, 2021
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  9. impact

    impact

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    Thanks chromus...

    I mentioned earlier - already have homebridge running - have voice working, and somfy blinds, ring does not integrate well with it - so need to come back to play with that doorbell...

    First reading - the homebridge plugins I thought did not support fans - that I was looking at... Second reading today - they support on / off / speed - but not advanced features... Think I would be happy with that...

    So I have bit the bullet - bought one of these 'smart' (in my opinion dumb) fans to experiment with... Will report back in a week or two on progress - it may help someone else....
     
    impact, Jan 11, 2021
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  10. impact

    chromus

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    Set the sweep fan controller up as a fan on CBUS Homebridge they respond as dimmers “hey Siri, set bedroom fan to 30%”

    Then whatever thresholds you set for the sweep switch overs in CBUS toolkit will give you 3 speeds + Off
     
    chromus, Jan 11, 2021
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  11. impact

    impact

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    Just as a note... of interest...
    I currently use an Orvibo magic cube https://www.orvibo.com/en/product/xiaofang.html- (although mine is a round device) - although not connected to my cbus network. It allows google voice control of the TV in the master bedroom. Yup says a lot about me and to lazy to find the remote in the dark to turn the tv channels...

    It works really well, and was so easy to setup (cant see the real need to integrate it to cbus. Although I note that homebridge does have a plugin in for orvibo - whether that is just power points / switches or everything...

    My worst case scenario is to control fans via something similar - as I believe the remotes are RF...

    A little exploring - Orvibo has another model that supports RF and IR learning https://www.orvibo.com/en/product/allone.html

    But I am possibly leaning towards bond to do this, as its RF Range of frequencies appears larger https://bondhome.io/ and there is a Homebridge plugin for bond - that describes more detail on what can be done - fan on off / light on off / dimming / fan speed 1 to 6 etc....

    I am aware of other bridges, have some in the cupboard for ethernet to IR, but of course they require a lot more programming and setup... Both the approaches above potentially are easier, more consumer / product ready and already have integration - so maybe this is the way to go.... (Except the bond does not ship to outside USA....)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
    impact, Jan 11, 2021
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  12. impact

    impact

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    I have ordered a bond home unit through amazon - $149... Amazon Australia reckons it will be delivered tomorrow...

    Decided to go this path - as I was reading the technical doco on the bond API... Probably the best outlined doco I have seen for awhile - gives plenty of examples on how it can be integrated - in fact just straight http requests to the unit - none of this cloud stuff, no need for homebridge (although I can use it). So that convinced me that the cbus could just send the http request internally - hoping for a simple implementation!

    If it arrives tomorrow great - but I will be away for a week... will be sweating on getting back home to play with it!
     
    impact, Jan 12, 2021
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