Erratic Homegate

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ColinCamSmith, Sep 12, 2023.

  1. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    I have been using Homegate integrated with Cbus Toolkit since about 2008. Currently the latest updated software in use is Homegate 4.12.1 and Toolkit 1.16.3. 2592.
    Over the last week, strange issues have started which are not always reflected in the Cbus Log.
    For example an Irrigation valve came on this morning but the switch in Homegate is Off and the Log shows it has not been exercised.
    More importantly physically turning off the valve in Cbus (although it was Off) did not stop the flow. Further, the supply Pump would not turn off.
    It has becaome so erratic that my concern is I may have to go back to old fashion switches for heating and irrigation etc.
    Has anyone had similar problems of recent times.
     
    ColinCamSmith, Sep 12, 2023
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  2. ColinCamSmith

    Wonkey

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    Are all the strange events associated with the same relay unit, if so then it could be that unit that is failing.
    Note that if a group address is already OFF then issuing an OFF command will have no effect on the network.
    If it occurs again turn the group address ON then OFF to see if the relay responds.
    I am presuming that the relay in question is an ELV relay and if so, it would be easy and safe to check that the C-Bus terminations are in good condition and the terminal block screws are tight.
     
    Wonkey, Sep 12, 2023
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  3. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    Thanks for that info but each of the problems occur on different relays. This morning was a mixed bag. The scheduled irrigation valves opened on time but did not shut off causing a big draw on my Dam.
    Further I noted a couple of switches that were scheduled to activate On/Off overnight but remained "Pressed" whilst the Front Gate Open Logic failed. I have attached a CBus layout and highlighted. the problem children. Could it be the Tablet I am using suddenly running out of "grunt". As trial I will shift the Cbus dongle to my Desktop to see if that maybe the problem. And as I have the tablet connected to one CNI and my Desktop connected another CNI could one of them be fautly causing a conflict (Al;though it has not been aproble for man y years. The Desktop CNI is only used to monitor the CBus log every day to make sure all actions are being activated especially in this dry weather. I have also attached a screenshot of one of the Homegate pages so you can see what I mean by switches I "Press".
     

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    ColinCamSmith, Sep 13, 2023
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  4. ColinCamSmith

    Wonkey

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    Things I noticed the screen grab if its new the time on that machine is seriously wrong.
    All the problem relays are ELV (24V)
    You mentioned previously strange issues have started which are not always reflected in the Cbus Log.
    If a relay changes state and its not recorded in the log and the system is communicating correctly, then the relay has been influenced to change state by another method. The most common cause of this is the override button being operated, and this would not show up in the log.
    I do feel though this is not your problem. Many years ago I remember an install having similar issues to yours and what had happened was there were some cables ran close to ELV relays which caused the relays to change state, moving these other cables away resolved the issue.
    Hopefully you are only running one instance of C-gate on site, not a great idea to have multiple C-Gates operating on the same network. You can have multiple instances of homegate without any problems.
    On your second machine consider running diagnostic utility if the above suggestions don't help.
    Colin
     
    Wonkey, Sep 13, 2023
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  5. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    The time on the Sceenshot is irrelevant as it was taken bck in 2017 and is one of the pages in my own Personal "Homegate / CBus Manual" for use by folk that stay when we are overseas. They use a remote in the Kitchen and the notes and pages in the manual give them quidance.

    Yes the errors all seem to relate to 24 volt Relays other than the Aux Inputs.

    I have shut down CBus completely on my Desktop PC and this will establish if it is that CNI that it uses is the problem.
     
    ColinCamSmith, Sep 14, 2023
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  6. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    Now running on my Desktop PC and still having the odd problem. For example this morning all Main Dam Irrigation ran as scheduled but when it got to the Nursery etc it stopped and did not transfer to the Bore Pump and low pressure valveas it should ?? - Ran it manually.

    Now for my info as an old dumb bloke where do I find the Diagnostic Utility?

    And for info I am going to run the Ferftigator tonight and it will be interesting to see if it follows the Logic which it has done for quite a few years.
     
    ColinCamSmith, Sep 17, 2023
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  7. ColinCamSmith

    Wonkey

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    Wonkey, Sep 18, 2023
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  8. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    Wonkey.
    Have tried everything to no avail. Now the Front Gate opens when it should close is one of about six in the last 24 hours. An Irrigation alav e comes on without bei g switched while another on e is runn ing etc. etc,

    Now a thought. The Dongle - it is a 5000SDHG2/4 fitted in about 2008.
    I have never upgraded the Firmware (if you can) during that period and the problems only started about 3 months ago.

    Do you have any background on Dongle issues?

    Regards,

    Colin
     
    ColinCamSmith, Sep 20, 2023
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  9. ColinCamSmith

    Wonkey

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    I doubt very much if this is a dongle issue, all the dongle does is maintain a connection from homegate to C-gate. C-gate then connects to the physical interface and operates C-Bus.
    Hence if the dongle is not working your system would not maintain a connection over a long time.
    The system can operate for a short period without a dongle.
    Did you manage to collect any information from diagnosis utility?
    Do you have control of your loads via any other inputs?, if yes switch off homegate to eliminate that part of the system or blame it, depending on the results
    If not have you considered creating a new simple project to see if it's project related.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2023
    Wonkey, Sep 21, 2023
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  10. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    I am afraid the Diagnostic is a bit beyound me. All I have been able to achieve is the attachged.
    |In short I am not sure how to run it even when it is directly connected to the CNI. Attached are my probable worthless reports.
     

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    ColinCamSmith, Sep 21, 2023
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  11. ColinCamSmith

    Wonkey

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    If you are out of your depth then consider getting an integrator involved. But if you can do the following it may help them or even you if the fault is obvious.
    Well done you got it working now we need to collect some useful data. Connect to C-Bus and turn on Log Commands (found under options).

    Use Diagnostic utility which can do many things, but what we are after at the moment is to confirm that the network is in good condition. To check this we use the Reliability test feature found under C-Bus.
    This need to run for a couple of hours at least, longer in possible also whilst the system is misbehaving.
    Its relatively easy to use. Press start on the pop up, when finished press stop get a screen grab of the pop up and capture the data on the main screen if there.
    I am going on holiday so if someone else can step in if there are any further question, if not I will be back in a few weeks time
     
    Wonkey, Sep 22, 2023
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  12. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    The local Integrator is not available until late November so will keep fiddling.

    Enjoy your break
     
    ColinCamSmith, Sep 23, 2023
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  13. ColinCamSmith

    oracle

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    out of curiosity how is homegate connected to the system? by network interface or usb/serial interface?
     
    oracle, Oct 20, 2023
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  14. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    The Hamegate Tablet has the CBus dongle inserted and the Tablet is connected by wirelesss to a Secondary router. The Secondary router is connected with Cat 5 cable via a Switch direct to the CBus relays etc some 70 metres away in a Shed. There are two CNI's One is connected to the Homegate Office. The other CNI is loaded onto my Desktop which I open from time to time to check the log.

    The Primary router is used for the Internet connection to Optus and the Generatory. See attached file. The Entrance & Annex Homgate tablets are clones and connected to the Office Homegate via Tight VNC
     

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    ColinCamSmith, Oct 21, 2023
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  15. ColinCamSmith

    oracle

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    Try swapping the CNI around - had a similar problem on multinetwork site where Cgate messages appeaerd to be queued and some time later executed? (CNI Issue)
    is the ethernet network stable? as you are checking the log of Cbus through homegate log.
    personally I would setup a logging pc seperately connected to the network to check events.
    diagnostic utility or at worst just toolkit application log monitoring the network

    https://www.se.com/au/en/download/document/DiagnosticUtility-V1.4/

    oh and if you worried that the dongle could be an issue ensure that power settings in your PC are not turning off usb devices to conserve power (thats the only dongle issue I have ever come across) also check in adaptor settings for network and make sure windows does not control the power settings of the device. or
    https://www.se.com/au/en/download/document/SchedulePlus-V503/
    use schedule 5.0.3 - read release notes about dongle your homegate project should be able to be imported
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
    oracle, Oct 21, 2023
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  16. ColinCamSmith

    ColinCamSmith

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    Whenever I have a problem with Homegate I at times reboot the Tablet and reload Homegate. At that time I swap the #1 CNI to the # 2 CNI. The CNI not in use with Homegate would then be opened on my Desktop and that is the Log I use to check for operation (eg certain valves have been opened to ensure irrigation is working and the pumps are triggering the flow meters).

    You have give me a thought. I may leave one of the CNI's disconnected and just use the Log of the CNI connected to the Homegate Tablet!
     
    ColinCamSmith, Oct 21, 2023
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