Electrician having a lend of me???

Hi Folks,

I'm currently building a house with a Project Builder, but I'm using an approved Clipsal C-Bus integrator (someone I've used before) to do the C-Bus side of things. He will work in with the builder's electrician.

The builder's electrician just gave me their quote and since my C-Bus integrator is on a well-deserved holiday, I thought I'd ask the knowledgeable people here about some aspects of the quote. Keep in mind this install is for a 31 square one-storey home.

These items were listed on his (non-CBUS) quote and are additional from a standard electrical installation but I don't understand what they are, whether they are required, and whether these prices are realistic or inflated:

1 x 3-phase sub-board adjacent c-bus panel $501
1 x 3-phase 80A sub-main from meter box to adjacent c-bus panel including protection $448
3 x overvoltage protection situated at meter box for protection of c-bus devices $475

Plus, a separate item for additional cable and labour for running lighting wiring to the C-Bus panels (instead of providing and installing light switches and the wiring to standard light switches) $560

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

Just my thoughts.

This item would be to house the circuit protection reqired for the circuits feeding your c-bus equipment.

This is the cabling between your main switch board and the c-bus sub-board listed above.

These items are to provide protection to your installation from power surges and/or lightning strikes.

Without having full details of your installation it seems very reasonable to assume that these items are required. With respect to pricing, this is a very regional thing and what may be considered expensive in one area may well be the going rate in another. If you are unsure get another quote, but remember to compare apples to apples and also being the cheapest in town doesn't make them the best in town. After all this is your house and you will only get the one chance to get it right. If your intergrator does a botch job of the programming you can make him re-do it a hundred times, this is not an option with the cabling.

Regards,

Peter.

 

Thanks for the reply Peter,

I'm in Sydney so I'd expect the pricing to be higher than in other areas. Unfortunately, I can't get others to quote these items because this stuff is done by the builder's electrician.

What do you think about charging $560 for labour and materials to run some extra lighting cable?

Which requires more labour?:

(a) run some extra mains cable at frame stage

(b) run mains cable from load to light switch locations and install light switch back plates at frame stage and then come back, supply, install and terminate individual light switches after gyprock.

My builder's electrician is charging me extra to do (a) instead of (b).

Cheers,
Jamie

 

Fudge Factor

Part of this extra will un-doubtably be the cost of the extra cabling needed (not a huge amount more, but still more and with the price of copper nowdays.)
The rest may be due to the fact that he is unfamiliar with this method of wiring and is therefore uncertain of how much time to allocate to it so he has made an estimate then added the fudge factor to cover himself in the event of blow outs. But with extra cable possibly another $200 and assuming labour at $65/hr I dont think that he is going too overboard.
I would check with him that the quote is less the cost of standard light switches that are not required on this job.
This is only my opinion and without the full details of the job and knowledge of the local market it should be viewed as no more.

Regards,

Peter.

 

Thanks again Peter,

I'm not sure I agree with the extra cable now that I've thought about it a bit more. Wouldn't you normally have to run mains from the fusebox to the lightswitch and then to the lights? With C-Bus you are only running mains from the C-Bus panel to the lights. He's already charged me to run mains from the fusebox to the C-Bus panels. It seems to me that there would be less cable used with a C-Bus install.

 

I guess you also have to weigh up the benefits/disadvantages of more/less cables versus one/more DIN-Rail enclosures. Enclosures cost a certain amount, cable costs a certain amount, maybe try doing the maths on the $ side of things and see which makes more sense to you.

 

Thanks guys for the replies.

I spoke to the sparky today and he put my mind at ease about those charges by explaining what each was for. He explained the daisy-chaining in a normal install so everything is satisfactory now.

My C-Bus integrator has suggested having multiple C-Bus panels (I had 2 in my last home) but it's a case of finding where to put them. I hate the click of relays and the low humming that dimmers can sometimes make. As a result, I don't want any in bedroom wardrobes, leaving the linen cupboard and laundry (although moisture might be an issue) as other options.

Thanks again,
Jamie

 

One area you could save costs is the 80A 3ph submain from your main Switchboard to the cbus board unless you need 1000 downlights in your house?!?!?!

I can't really see a need for more than 32A 3ph (and even thats getting up there) and it will make everyones life easier, smaller cable, easier to get the cable out of the way in a plastic board, 16mm2 cable is a pain to work with in plastic boards.

 

I did a sub board once that cost around $7500. That didnt include the metering board or the C-bus installation. I used every protection device known to mankind including over-voltage, 3 phase lightning, MCB/RCD single pole and isolation to make even a paranoid person stand in awe.

At the end of the day the six computers and 4 tv's are still running after multiple direct hits to the area. The only fatality has been the telstra cable modem which runs on coax dorectly from the street. The data side is not easy to protect so that can fail.

If the work is good and the parts useful then the cost is not comparable to other cheaper - low cost jobs.

 

Hi Tobex,

What state are you in (as in state of Australia) sounds like lightning is a big thing in your neck of the woods ???

Maybe Bris Vegas ???

 

The house is in the famous hail-stone belt of Sydney. Well known for damage, floods and eletrical spikes.

Doesnt help having the tallest house in the street either. Most of the hits are in the local park down the road which is a water syphon and is marked with ventilation stacks made from metal.