eDLT applications

How about an even simpler fix
If you have any other scene capable key input Like a 30mech unit that does not control any scenes. Hence just turns lights on and off
Then In that unit :
Change the primary application to Air conditioning Application
Secondary application to lighting
Your existing keys put on the secondary application so they can control the lights.
Now the good bit:
Set 2 of the virtual key to be scenes
Give it a scene trigger group and action selector
Program one scene for the Air Con application control group1 to on and the other scene to off

In the eDLT
remote trigger these scenes
Select a key as a scene
add the 2 scene trigger groups and action selector this time with no actions inside
Use the scene cycle feature on the key
You can label the scenes and it will work.

 

LOL, Great bodgie minds obviously think alike.

Your suggestion was also my first idea and I tried this on the bench this afternoon, but it didn't work for me with a single 30 mech as the eDLT trigger scene cycle didn't seem to work with on/off as the AS?

Probably should have done it this morning instead.

 

Hey Wonkey and Brad,

Thankyou for these ideas with no logic! Loving it, I knew someone smarter on here would come up with a simple answer! Wish i had thought of changing the primary application to air-conditioning on a spare unit.
I have a 2 key saturn unit that is just on/off for lights. Wonkey I have set it up exactly as u described however I cant seem to get it to work still.

Please refresh my memory on scenes?! Sorry been a while so not up to speed with Trigger and action selectors.
So in the 2 key saturn its only letting me select one trigger group for both scenes? Is this correct?
So i have scene 1 - Communication group 1 100% for on and scene 2 - comm group 1 0% for off.
When i go to do trigger group both are set to trigger group 1, if i try set other one to trigger 2 it changes.
And i have to put first scene as say action selector 0 and then second one as action selector 1.

Not quite sure where going wrong, maybe in eDLT? have done it as you said. Scene cycle. Main groups box i have empty, have put in trigger group and action selectors but not working. I notice that scene label cant be the same for both?

Cheers
Matt

 

Brad,

I dont have a bus coupler or aux unit either sorry! otherwise would do that simple set up too! Cheers might get one

 

Think i worked it out, forgot to add scenes to scene cycle list within eDLT!

 

Hey Wonkey,

Yep, Pull down box finger troubles. My 'Off' Scene Trigger was a close trigger name from a previous test (EDLT Testing Trigger Group) rather than the on trigger I had set up as 'EDLT Scene Selection Trigger'.

Just chose the right Off trigger on the bench and it worked fine.

Matt, works a treat.

 

First world problems! Loving it, now I can turn my AC on / off from eDLT before getting out of bed! Exactly what i wanted to achieve!
Thankyou guys for your clever, simple solutions. Always a way round with c-bus!
Now not a biggie, but i think i sort of have it working ok now, the idea being would like it to work like a traidtional 2 way switch. As in can turn on/off at eDLT at bedside OR on/off from the power button on the actual cbus AC thermostat.
Only thing im noticing is if I toggle the scene cycle either off or on at eDLT, and then go to themostat and turn on or off there, the status isnt picked up (ie LED indication ON / OFF or State label icon on eDLT doesnt change as a result from push on thermostat. - Not end of world but can you see a way around this?

Cheers
Matt

(ha ha, i had my blinds going up and down after setting this! Doh! realised i had a scene already set up with trigger group 1 for master for blinds! So changed to trigger 2 all good!)

 

Reason to dumb it down and work like a basic 2 way so mrs. and kids dont get confused!

 

Maybe i need the bus coupler or AUX option Brad?? Sorry been a long hot day at work in Adelaide, my brain not working as well friday well and truly after beer o'clock!

 

Would scene select be a better option within eDLT than scene cycle? or just ON/OFF? would be nice to just do on one eEDT button - as in left for OFF / right for ON

 

Matt, working several cylinders down here at this time of day but I've got a Thermostat, eDLT, Bus Coupler and 30 mechs on my bench from my 'afternoon tea' sojourn play around after my day onsite and will fiddle a bit over the next day or so to see what I can see.

If it isn't already in the dev plan (it probably is), as you previously suggested CIS could just add the A/C app to the eDLT future dev path as a secondary app choice (even if its not a full experience and is just for Comms Group On/Off etc), much like the other input units that would allow the simplistic on/off control functionality,

Cheers,

Brad

 

Cheers Brad,

Will crack a tin now for you thanks for your help!

 

I gave this some thought and tried a few things.
My input , 2 dedicated scene keys would prevent family confusion if you have the keys spare on the eDLT
The scene select would work but its a different way of thinking for a user, ie. select the function you want then press and hold to activate.
If you are going to spend money then buy something with a logic engine as you can achieve so much more than just resolving this one issue.
Depending how committed you are to learning there are choices (Wiser 2, SHAC, PAC).
My opinion buy a Wiser 2 there are update for the flash issue in the pipeline and its easy to learn, and you can control your home from an app.
Plus you can mess about on you PC by installing Piced to see if you can figure out the Logic for free and even connect to you network to see if it works.
Do you have a space windows PC hanging about that can run 24/7 then look into Homegate.

 

Hey Matt, Just like fine wine, good things can sometimes take time.

After a few false starts ordering wrong bus coupler, then Christmas and holidays, the correct part arrived whilst I was up the coast for holidays.

But here goes.......

eDLT button set to On/Off on lighting group eg. 'AC_On_Off'.
Thermostat is whatever comms group it is on the Air-conditioning Application, in my case it was 'Communications Group 1'

Using a 5102BCLEDL Bus Coupler with LEDs and 2 x Jaycar SY4036 5V SPST DIL Reed Relay, you configure the Bus Coupler to use both apps, and the channel LED outputs drive the small relay coils that trigger the bus coupler inputs on the alternate channel ie they are crossed over 1 -> 2 and 2 -> 1. (Opto Couplers would work too)

See the attached images.

This allows you to switch on the Air-conditioning application comms group from an eDLT button that doesn't normally support that app for on/off without a scene. This requires NO LOGIC DEVICE on your C-Bus but works like a C-Bus group follow.

I have used the bus couplers before in this configuration to link in to security panels reed inputs to trigger things like door strikes and gate release, or Arm / Disarm on non-compatible panels etc so this is a good trick for other things as well. It is also good as the normal C-Bus 2 channel standalone relays require 240V and so shouldn't be near security etc where this bus coupler trick is all ELV. With a bigger relay switched by the reed switch, you could even use it for irrigation etc. without having to run long DC cables from all locations back to a ELV relay.

But for your AC application, the two are just crossed over and set to 'Bell Press'. When one group is on, it turns on the other and vice versa. You can turn on or off the AC from either the eDLT or the thermostat.

So there you go, Logic free 'group follows' between same or different apps and 'Family Friendly' switching from either end.

Good Luck with your application,

Brad

• www.noushouse.com.au

PS. I bought this Clipsal 5102BCLEDL C-Bus Bus Coupler from Clipsal just to prove the theory would work for your app. If you want to buy it so it won't sit around in my parts bin for the next year or so, I'll throw in the relays and cables in the image at no charge. ;-P

 

@bmerrick have you ever come across a solution for connecting CBUS to Seeley Intl (Breezair/Braemar) swampie A/C units?

 

Hi Chromus,

You'll likely laugh, but I had to look up what a 'Swampie' was, we don't really see them here in Sydney or at least I haven't myself. Possibly too humid? I most often see Daikin, Mitsubishi and Fujtisu RC-AC or splits.

I looked at the Seeley website and in the 'Braemar Evap EA Install 2018 English' product manual it had a wiring diagram that seemed to suggest that AC wiring after a main isolation/disconnection switch, then went to 'Wall Controller' with a Pump On/Off switch and also a Fan On/Off switch and 'downstream' of that Fan On/Off switch, it branched to a Fan High/Low switch that just chose the high and low speed winding of the fan motor. On the diagram, they were drawn like 30 Mech switches but may not be the same at all.

It seemed from the diagram that you could fully replicate the wall switch's operation with a 4 channel C-Bus changeover relay (Pump On/Off, Fan On/Off and Fan High/Low ), but then the wall controller has a 'control cable' which I assume provides sensor data like room temp/ unit temp / humidity etc, operations scheduling and also the variable speed control setting if you have that option rather than just 2 speed motor. Whilst you could replicate the main 240V motor switching, you would probably lose the control of the wall controller which seems purpose built and it probably has a master control feedback mechanism to shut down the unit if the wall controller doesn't feed it the right inputs or isn't there.

So you'd likely be bypassing inbuilt safety systems if you replicated the 240V side of the controller without also taking note of what else the controller was doing and sending. The best advice would probably come from the vendor themselves if they have an automation control info sheet for commercial users etc. who don't want accessible wall controllers in for example a shop etc.

Sorry, not much more than you would have tried yourself.

Brad

 

Thanks for looking - They have a "Magiq" unit, but they are completely undocumented and don't have a wiring kit that matches their units and no one at Seeley seems to know anything about it.

It's looking more and more like I will have to build a custom device that can rx/tx RS232 from/to cbus and then control the fan and pumps. Simple fan on/off won't cut it with these units as they have 3 HP motors and inverter control. Running these fans at full power turns over the air volume of the house at 450x / hour.

 

Hey Chromus,

Was looking around out of interest. Did you see this 'BMS Industrial Controller' on their website? Check out Page 13, it seems you could use a C-Bus 0-10V Analogue Output module to run the fan speed in that controller and 10v digital inputs for on/off and pump on/off. So you could use relays for them or just use other outputs on the 0-10v and set them at 100% or 0% for on/off.

What do you think? could save writing an RS-232/WiFi device driver emulating the app.

Cheers,

Brad

 

They sent me a demo unit of that and it was DOA its the same as the Magiq i mentioned above but for industrial applications. They don't seem willing/able to provide a replacement to me as I'm not a dealer, even if I pay for it.

It also uses a 6 wire interface but their new gen of wall controllers are 4 pin, it's all a huge PITA.