Dimmable LED Downlight Options - Single Owner Experience

Discussion in 'C-Bus Wired Hardware' started by Roti, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. Roti

    Roti

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    Hi. I had read a lot of info on other's different experiences on this forum. This areas seems to still be evolving fast.

    I bit the bullet and tried a number of options on a 4 channel C-Bus DIN rail dimmer for my own experience, to get some idea what to put into my own new house.

    If it's any use to anyone, this is what I have found so far. All were tested with 2 fixtures per dimmer channel:

    - Crompton XL Series ? Work well with 0-100% dimming. Slow delay before adjusting to match input level. These are my current choice to install.

    - Lumitex Barricade ? Dim normally from 100% down to about 15%. Flicker between 10-15%. From 10% down to 0% become brighter and gradually scale to off. Quite useable if just set minimum dimming to 20% on the C-bus channel.

    - Halers Dimmable LED Downlighting kit ? Flickering, not useable.

    - BrightGreen D900 ? Dim smoothly down to about 30-40%, but go no dimmer than this.

    - Cree 9WCGU10WW60DIM GU10 sockets (so no transformers) ? Also dim smoothly down to about 30-40%, but go no dimmer than this.

    - Superlight ECO 12 ? Flickering and unstable. Not useable.

    - Philips MR16 dimmable LEDs plus iron core transformers ? Dim down to about 30-40%, then switch off below that.


    For the record, I don't work in the trade and have no affiliation or association with anyone selling any of this kit.

    Cheers, R.
     
    Roti, Feb 26, 2012
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  2. Roti

    Newman

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    Hi Roti. A quick clarification. Was the C-Bus 4-channel dimmer a Leading Edge model or a Universal model?
     
    Newman, Feb 26, 2012
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  3. Roti

    Roti

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    Sorry. It's a 4 Channel Universal Dimmer with Power Supply (L5504D2U, DIMDU4).
     
    Roti, Feb 26, 2012
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  4. Roti

    tobex

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    How can we get you to try the

    - Osram 10W GU10
    - LED Lighting EVO50 15W MR16

    It would be nice if you had a complete set. The Osram sell in Bunnings. The LED Lighting EVo50 come with a trailing edge driver which humms loudly on my first generation DIN 8 channel dimmer. (turquoise)
     
    tobex, Feb 26, 2012
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  5. Roti

    Robbo_VIC

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    Did you try any of them as a single fixture?
     
    Robbo_VIC, Feb 26, 2012
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  6. Roti

    Newman

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    I recently tried out a couple of the OSRAM 10W GU10's (bought from Bunnings). I paid $27 (I think!) which, if they perform well, is good value.

    With a single lamp on a few dimmers on the bench they had a very limited dimming range, not even diming at all on a Hager rotary mech dimmer. They would also not turn fully off with the C-Bus DIN LE dimmers, glowing even when the channel was off. The C-Bus Universal dimmer would shut the channel down, thinking it had a short circuit load.

    With 2 lamps on the circuit things improved quite a bit. The dimming range got a lot better on all the dimmers. They still don't dim right down, but I'd say they dim down to about 20% or so. They worked just fine on the C-Bus DIN Leading Edge dimmer. They also worked fine on the C-Bus DIN Universal however there was a flicker at turn-on but they were fine after that.

    Brightness at the centre of the beam looks to be approximately the same as a 240V GU10 based halogen but the beam angle is quite noticeably narrower. That's probably why they don't include the lumen output on the packaging or in their literature.
     
    Newman, Feb 27, 2012
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  7. Roti

    tobex

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    They are strange ... as they get older they seem to get better. Dont ask me how I quantify that but I found them smoother like a halogen. At first they seemed to be limited in range and then became more responsive.

    I think that the entire light fitting is different to the lamp alone. There is something oddly different about the GU10 lampholder supplied by Osram.
     
    tobex, Feb 27, 2012
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  8. Roti

    Newman

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    Yes, I recall you mentioning this in another thread. The only thing I can think of is that they may be providing some additional dissipation, or some sort of additional load (active or passive) to the dimmer to improve the dimming compatibility. I'd love to get hold of one and see what they've done.

    My comments above pertain to testing the OSRAM GU10 lamp on conventional GU10 holders.
     
    Newman, Feb 27, 2012
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  9. Roti

    Lumitex LED Lighting

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    Lumitex Barricade dimmable LED

    Hi Roti

    First up, just letting you know that I am posting as a representative of Lumitex, manufacturer of the Barricade.

    I was intrigued by the issues you were having with our Barricades on Cbus module L5504D2U. (You are correct in using a minimum of 2 units to allow the Cbus module to switch correctly). We have done significant testing on this particular unit and achieve excellent low level dimming (1%) without any flickering or other issues you have observed.

    To clarify this point I have included some links below to some clips showing the dimming performance of the Barricade on a Clipsal universal rotary dimmer, Cbus universal Cbus module and the new Clipsal Saturn OneTouch. All these models provide very smooth stable dimming with Barricade with minimum dimming levels at 1% (rotary dimmer) or fully down to black (CBus and Saturn).







    Roti, if you wanted to contact Lumitex ([email protected]) I hope we can sort out this out for you as it is not the normal performance exhibited from the Barricade in the setup you have described. Given the trouble you have gone to in your testing, I would hate for your final decision to be made on the basis of an easily dealt with issue.

    On another note, we certainly agree with comments posted regarding verifying specifications through organisations such as the Lighting Council of Australia. We continue to see exaggerated and sometimes misleading information about LEDs in the marketplace. The best way to ensure accurate information is to ensure specifications come through validated channels such as the Lighting Council.

    Great to see the discussions and passion for this exciting industry coming through this forum. Keep it up guys!

    Ryan
    Lumitex


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2012
    Lumitex LED Lighting, Feb 29, 2012
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  10. Roti

    NickD Moderator

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    Hi Ryan,

    Welcome to the forum and thank you for being up-front about your position.

    I for one welcome participation from LED (or any) manufacturers as long as they are up-front like this about their association and are contributing to the discussion and not just flogging their product.

    Nick
     
    NickD, Feb 29, 2012
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  11. Roti

    Dust31

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    Hi Roti,
    I've read that Brightgreen's light are adaptable with all dimmers and go down to 0%.
    I'm looking at getting some D900s. Was it the Curve or Cube that you tested?
    Would it be just the 4 channel C-Bus DIN rail that you used that would be hampering dimming?
    Thanks
     
    Dust31, Mar 29, 2012
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  12. Roti

    Newman

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    The C-Bus DIN Leading Edge dimmer is a 3-wire dimmer and works from 0 - 100% of the conduction range. The limited dimming performance of the D900/D1000 is a known issue with these downlights and is the case on a range of dimmers, not just C-Bus.
     
    Newman, Mar 29, 2012
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  13. Roti

    Roosta

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    Hey Roti,

    First up thanks for the valuable info..

    I was just wondering if there was a reason you didnt include the clipsal led downlight in your testing/observations?

    Cheers,
    Nik
     
    Roosta, Mar 29, 2012
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  14. Roti

    david s

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    Hi Lumitex

    I was just experimenting the same with a Barricade testing the dimming functions. I tried with the leading edge dimmers L5508D1A and was experiencing the Barricade not turning off and your post shone a light on my dilemma so to speak.

    Plugged two rather than a single lamp and they work perfectly. Hopefully this clears up any issues for anyone else searching for the same problem.

    For the record they do dim to 1% with no flickering, which was the purpose of my testing. I'm wanting to to dim very low for a media room, your product does this perfectly.
     
    david s, Jun 4, 2012
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  15. Roti

    jon.godfrey

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    My testing of LED down lights and Dimmers

    I have been gradually changing my Halogens for dimmable LED's.

    At first I had good results using Aurora GU10 - AU-P16GU2408/42 however they have changed the manufacturing process and my supplier now tells me the new model does not work with the C-Bus dimmers.

    He's recommended the Bell units (BELL 05137 5W GU10 CW) which perform very well. They use slightly less power and are smaller. Two challenges are firstly the units are dark grey so they look poor against a white ceiling and due to their very low power you will need at least two on each channel due to the load requirements of the Dimmer unit.

    When I get round to it I will free up some dimmer channels as I had the opposite problem with halogens.

    Hope this of interest... :)
     
    jon.godfrey, Jan 2, 2013
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  16. Roti

    znelbok

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    Can anyone recomend a LED unit (replacement for downlights) that is suitable for the older non-universal dimmers. Preferably something that has been proven to be suitable and will not "melt" my dimmer a year down the track.

    Mick
     
    znelbok, Feb 4, 2013
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  17. Roti

    Roosta

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    Roosta, Feb 4, 2013
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  18. Roti

    DarylMc

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    DarylMc, Feb 4, 2013
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  19. Roti

    Matthew

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    Try Osram

    Hi Mick
    I believe most of the dimmable Osram LED products (Luxpoint, Ledvance) work on LE dimers.
    Happy Lighting!
    Matthew
     
    Matthew, Feb 8, 2013
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  20. Roti

    znelbok

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    Thanks guys

    Finding an LED option that is cheap enough to warrant the cost vs the savings is difficult. It appears we are not quite there yet but getting close.

    I'll keep looking and watching.
     
    znelbok, Feb 9, 2013
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