Dead 5104RVF

Hi,

I have a couple of 5104RVFs that seem to have a problem.

The CBUS side of things is OK - I can program the units and I can see the level change on the opto coupler input when the group address changes.

I have also used a meter to verify that there is 40V available on the output of the voltage divider, but there seems to be a problem in the relay control circuitry. The relays won't pull-in even with the CBUS disconnected and the jumper in position P1P2.

Are there any common faults with these units or suggestions as to which component is causing the problem?

Thanks,
Paul

 

Another dead 5104rvf

Hi all..
I have a 5104RVF which has stopped controlling the 4 lights connected to it. I dont have space on my board to replace it with the new rack mounted RVF's. Can I get this one replaced or repaired ?
Is there a common fault with these- previous 5104R's I have had a fault with a leaky C7 capacitor which was easily fixed ??
Cheers
Ian

 

It's suprising to hear you say that you don't have space to replace the 5104RVF with a DIN Rail mounting unit. The L5504RVF is only the length of 8 circuit breakers.

Are the contacts closed or open? Check with a multimeter across the load terminals with the power disconnected. It may be the case that the relays have welded shut. What kinds of loads were you using?

I would take your units back to your Clipsal wholesaler and fill out a Product Fault Report. The product, along with this report, will be returned to Clipsal for analysis. You'll either get a quote for repair or a statement saying 'Beyond Economic Repair'.

 

Thanks for the quick response.. The board has about 8 of these units plus 2 power supplies! It is crowded.. also, a lot easier to replace like for like if required.
The relays are all open..ie the lights won't come on with Key units. All key units tested ok..
I'm thinking it might be the C7 capacitor as I have had similar issues with other 5104R's before.. is this common ?
Thanks for the tip re Product Fault Report..
Cheers
Ian

 

If you can successfully scan and program the unit from Toolkit, it is not a C7 capacitor issue.

 

Believe it or not, but I'm running Minder MkII !! and the unit won't scan..

 

If you're trying to use C-Bus Toolkit, it cannot scan a C-Bus Network through a Minder. You'll need to use the old V2 software to do that.

If you are using the V2 software, and everything else on the network can successfully be scanned, but the relay unit does not show up, then there's a reasonable chance that the fault is due to C7, however that is not guaranteed.

 

Thanks..
I am scanning via the old V2 software and unit wont show.. so plan of attack will be to replace C7 first and if no luck fill out PFR and send to Clipsal for repair. Just one question though - if I disconnect the 5104 to repair or send to clipsal, will the rest of the lighting system work without it on the board?
Cheers
Ian

 

If it stops working when you disconnect the relay unit, then the install must have been very marginal to begin with. I would expect it to be just fine.

Just make sure that continuity of the C-Bus network is preserved if you were looping the C-Bus cable at this unit. Make sure that the C-Bus conductors can't short out against anything whilst the relay unit is out of service.

 

Cheers for that.. will let you know how it all goes !

 

Network down after brownout !

Hi Newman..
Just a quick update.. before I have had a chance to fix the C7 and test we had a blackout over the weekend after which the network died ie it wouldn't come back up and wouldnt scan.. nothing! After isolating upstairs and downstairs, I got downstairs to work. However, if I re-connected u/s, then network down again. Had 36v across network all the time. The faulty 5104RVF was on the upstairs circuit- disconnected that and now the network is back up and running, except of course for the 4 channels of the 5104RVF. Still waiting for the C7 capacitor which is on order.

But, I do have a spare working 5104R - was wondering if I could replace the faulty RVF with the R - what is the difference between the two- I see that they are wired differently (looped) inside.
Cheers
Ian

 

The difference, as stated in the Installation Instructions, is that the relays on the RVF are voltage-free contacts, meaning that you need to connect the active input and load output to each relay channel yourself.

The R version has the active internally connected to input-side of each relay, meaning that you only need to make 1 active input connection to the unit, in addition to the 4 load connections. Because of this configuration, the non-RVF versions are only rated at 20A total for the product, whereas the RVF's can go up to 40A per product. In both cases, the individual channels are rated at 10A each.

 

thanks for that..
So can I replace the RVF with the R or does the 20A v 40A preclude me from doing this ?

 

Only you can answer that. If you have less than 20A in total across the 4 channels then you can interchange them. For the R, all loads need to be on the same phase too, obviously.

 

Old 5104R / 5104RVF

Hi everyone..

Was hoping someone out there may have old 5104R/VF black boxes
collecting dust in their sheds!

If so I will be glad to take them off your hands. I have an installation at my home that is about 12 years old now and a couple of these need replacing. I tend to loose one every now and again and cannot really afford the $500 cost of 5504's.!

Cheers
Ian