Controlling a Viron variable speed pool pump

G'day fellow tech's
Has anyone ventured into variable speed pool pumps? Basically a variable speed drive controlling a DC motor, coupled to a more traditional pump.
I've done some research over the last 3 weeks and just put a Viron 280 in. http://www.astralpool.com.au/products/viron
The energy savings make sense. Anyway it has 3 speeds that are controlled with push buttons on top of the pump. There is a RJ12 connection for linking to their proprietary viron connect product but that really doesn't appear do anything my c-bus touch screen couldn't. Has anyone info on the comms &/or protocol it uses? I'd be happy if I could simply switch the speeds remotely with spare contacts on my C-Bus LV relay.

Regards
Matthew

 

I have looked into a few systems and not many offer connections to the outside.

Much like A/C vendors, they all think that there world is the only world and you dont need anything else - which is a shame.

The only two options I see are to either reverse engineer the protocol (which would mean buying a touchscreen) or going down the path you indicated.

Maybe you should seend some feedback to them and let them know that it is something that is desired by users - if we dont tell them then they will think that they dont need it.

On a side note: why does the pump need to run at variable speeds? I dont have a pool unfortunately, so I am not that familiar with pool control requirements.

Mick

 

Why switch speed?

Hi Mick
The reason for variable speed is to save energy. I'm in the energy efficiency game and when a pool pump died, did at home what I do at work, look for the most efficient product. There is very little out there which is surprising considering my (average size) pool adds $600-$800 to my electricity bill per year, that was before we had two ~15% price rises this year. From my research the savings are due to reduced volume through the pump. If you halve the volume, you use a quarter of the power. The manufacturer's website has a bit but found the really good info on a huge thread on whirlpool that has info from one of the engineers (claimed) if you are interested http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1519825#

So now with the Variable speed pump I run the pump on low (400W) for normal filtration & sanitisation that is ~80% of the use, on Medium (675W) with the auto cleaner (kreapy crawly) and on High (1000W) to get it through the solar heater. Previously I had a std 3/4hp pump (950W) running all the time plus another 3/4hp pump to do the solar heater when in use.

I wanted to automate the process, hence I want to interface the pump speed setting so when the solenoid for the solar heating leg opens the pump is switched to high. Currently I have to manually switch over the valve to use the solar heater and switch it the pump to high.

 

I love that pump too

Can't help you on the automation side, other than to say there is only one fully integrated CIS pool/spa controller that I know of and it's over 6K.
That's why I asked for some wireless 65 rated (outdoor)240V relays to be made available

But OMG. I have one of these Viron pumps too, and I LOVE that thing!!

 

Thanks Matthew.

I knew volume was the key, but did not link the speed to power savings. I figured that if you have to move xkL/day, then at either ykl/hr 0.5ykL/hr (pump at half speed) would not make any differenc in power used.

Thanks for the link, will read it with interest.

Jandy I believe make a variable pump system and they have a HA interface as well. Not a cheap system, but well known. Not much help if you already have the Viron though.

Mick

 

Pump control

Hi Matthew,

It sounds like you may be better off to try and interface with the keypad on the pump. From the pictures (not very good ones), it appears to be a small keypad without tactile buttons; so you can either modify the one you have or purchase another keypad as a spare part. These keypads work on a matrix principle, so you will need to test it and work out which combination of terminals each button does. They are normally plugged into the pcb with a in-line header arrangement on the circuit board as they need to be replaced from time to time. Once you have decided whether to modify the existing unit or buy another to modify, you will need to get some wires attached to the same pins as the keypad, this can be done by careful soldering onto the flexible keypad track or just solder straight onto the back of the pcb where the keypad plugs in.

You need to be careful and understand, that this needs to be separated from mains potentials as it is only switching inputs (probably to a microprocessor).

Once you have your connection and have established how the matrix works, connect it to your relays and you'll be off!

wappinghigh - Just curious, why do want IP65 rated relays?

Yes those controllers are ridiculously priced, and I don't even think they give you as much functionality as building a custom made one.

In previous projects for pool control I have used IP enclosures and put some relays in the pump room/ shed enclosure with standard IP power points controlled from the relays.

For IP rated interfacing, I use standard pool air switches in the pool, which connect to an air switch back in the enclosure (I use small chasis mount ones from RS), this is feed into an auxiliary input and you are away. They work brilliantly, you can even perform long press functions if you stay within the air switch specs.

Good luck, it sounds like a great idea and even a potential market for retro fitting the pumps too.

 

Replies

ARC...wireless outdoor rated relays could be used to switch all the loads on and off. Pump on/pump off. Heater on/off. Spa blower on/off. Solar pump on/off. Spa jets (pump) on/off. That sort of thing. Being wireless would make them easy to retrofit...as most pools are separate from the house, and already have concrete/paving enclosed which makes pulling wires later a problem. Being outdoor/water rated also has instant benefits because a lot of pools (mine included) have the pump area out in the open (and there is a lot of water around!)

CIS make a lower voltage relay box which could be used to switch valves etc, but in their wisdom they didn't make it water proof, which in retrospect was little silly, because it would be ideal also for switching garden systems etc..

As for the Virion 3 speed pump. My P300 is fantastic (and automatically downspead's to the lowest speed setting) You don't actually need control of this as it will do it automatically. But I think there is a version which can be switched if you want???? It sure would be great to be able to control such a pump via cbus though!!! You could link it into power management with the wiser. You could also control it from inside like you say. Another benefit is heating. If gas heating is attached to the water line going through the pump it gets a bit dangerous running the pump on slow with the heater on..so other role for this control.

Anyway I have just hooked my pump up to the new cbus power monitoring. For everyone's info, FAST speed uses 1.73KW/hr MEDIUM uses 0.93KW/hr and SLOW uses 0.42 KW/hr so huge savings here!

These pumps absolutely rock! Thoroughly recommended..

 

Wireless relays

Hi wappinghigh,

I see your applications there and I do understand there is a lot of work to be had in the retro fit arena.

Have you considered putting a wireless gateway in a small enclosure out at the pump location? Or next to the spa?

You can of course buy the standard 5812R10F1AA, but would probably be wiser to use a gateway with an ELV relay driving some interposing relays so you can rely on them not blowing up with pump start up currents. If you only have a few items to switch you could couple the wireless gateway to an L5504RVF20P, works out at a reasonable rate, with 20A switching capability.

Pleased to see you enjoy your pump, happy swimming.

 

Hack a wireless light switch

Just a thought, but don't some of the wireless light switches have onboard relays? e.g the saturn range.. Maybe you could put one of those inside the pool control box, obviously you would need to add an external contactor that the wireless switch switches

 

SBL,

yes you are quite correct some of them do. The 5812R10F1AA is essentially a plug in version of the switches you refer to, but it has a full switching capabilities of 10A; the switches are rated to 8A at best. Being a plug in module makes retro-fitting a breeze, as the load just plugs in on top. Either way there are options ...