Controlling 3 phase devices via CBUS

Hi All,

Seeking some advice for my CBUS installation. I built a new house 3 months ago with a farily extensive CBUS system (32 dimmable channels and 16 relays).

I have a reasonably large semi rural property (7.5 acs) and I am wondering if I can switch on and off some 3 phase devices I have.

Number one is a 3hp 3 phase bore bump which drives 2.5acres of reticulation. The pump is connected to a 3 phase isolator switch out in the "paddock" which is approx 35 metres from the house. I was wondering if there was some remote way of switching it on and off without having to run a pink CBUS cable out to a relay on the switch. Any ideas? Wireless maybe?

Number two is a 22Kw 3 phase airconditioner, which has a touchscreen controller mounted on the inside wall of the house. The controller is made by LG and as far as my research shows me there is no interface between that controller and CBUS. The system also was a wireless (i.e. not IR) remote which can switch it on and off. Is there some way I can use CBUS to switch it on and off, maybe by wireless - can CBUS "interface" with another wireless system?

One last thing whilst Im here. I would like to automate the opening and closing of the garage door. I believe from what I have read in these forums that I should be able to use one of the spare relay channels I already have. I imagine I have to run two wires from the CBUS relay to the "switch" on the garage door. How is it wired at the relay end?

And no Im not going to do this myself, my brother is an electrician.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers

 

If you don't want to run a cable, then C-Bus Wireless is probably your best option. 35m is a bit of stretch in terms of range but, given that it's all outdoors, I'd expect it to make it.
If you can remotely turn the isolator on/off with a 240V switch then you can use the output from a C-Bus Wireless plug adaptor to turn it on/off instead.

Not directly. C-Bus Wireless devices can only communicate with other C-Bus Wireless devices.
If the air conditioning has an RS-232 interface or a dry contact interface then you should be able to connect either of these to a C-Bus device. Depending on the type of interface, you may need to write some logic code in a 5500PAC or a C-Touch to get it to behave exactly the way you want.

This will depend entirely on the kind of garage door openers you have. If your garage door controllers have a switch or dry contact input then you can connect an ELV relay unit to them, letting the original motor controllers handle all the logic, which is preferable. If the roller door motors have limit switches in them you can probably use a Shutter Relay unit to control them directly.
Controlling the motors directly from standard relay channels is generally not a good idea, mainly due to ensuring that both the up and down directions can never be activated simultaneously under any circumstances. Many keyboards have had their letters worn off discussing the topic on the forum.

Like most things, you can usually achieve what you want, but some things just take a bit more effort and creativity than others.

 

What Newman says pretty much covers it all.

You brother should know the answer to the first question.

If you put a contactor (3 phase) with a 240V coil (a contactor is basically a big arse relay), you can then use C-bus to switch the contactor on and off, thus turning the pump on and off.

You can either put the contactor near the pump and then have to get the control voltage to the contactor.
Two ways to do this,
1. Tap off a phase and run it through a C-Bus relay. This means that you need the C-Bus network at the pump as well (wired or wireless what ever works). (also brings up the C-Bus over power line issue again as a solution - see discussions in other threads re this)
2. Put the contactor back at the distribution board in the house and switch the pump on/off from there. Your C-Bus relay can then be one used in the house and if a new relay is needed then the C-Bus network should be close by.

You really want to work at the comms level for this. You would have to talk to LG about interfacing to it. Also be aware that if you start turning it off by a non-recomended method you may void warranties etc.

Depends on the garage door opener. Most I have seen have a pair of contacts. Shorting them briefly will open/close/stop the motor (depends on where it is currently). To get C-bus to work with motors of this sort is easy. Just run a single pair cable from the motor to a relay channel. Set up the switch to be a bell press and when ever you press the button the relay will short the wires and the door will do something.

 

Thanks guys, really appreciate the response.

So to recap your responses;

Pump:
With the pump using CBus wireless I could switch a standard 3 phase relay/contactor by tapping one of the phases (I would have to do this at the switch near the pump, its not feasible in the switchboard, its not in the house). However, I cant seem to find a wireless CBUS relay on the web. Do these exist? The plug adaptor I dont think would work as the switch is hard wired and it looks like the plug adaptor requires a standard 3 pin plug. Also I assume the plug adaptor is for single phase installs.

AirCon:

Looks like a no goer, not a big issue and I was aware that it did not have a CBUS interface when I bought it.

Garage door:

The motor appears to have 2 screws for connecting some sort of external relay. So I would assume I can run 2 wires from the CBUS relay and connect the there. Seen as I have the 12 channel relay running 240V lights, I would assume that I dont "daisy chain" the 240V on the relay and just run the two wires to the garage switch. I would imagine that supplying 240V to a push button switch on a garage door motor would result in a fire/explosion/pop/fizz or all of the above.

Thanks for your responses, some good food for thought.

Cheers

 

Pump:
You could probably still use a C-Bus Wireless plug adaptor (which is single phase) to drive the contactor coil. You could wire the input to the plug adaptor from one of the phases to power it, and connect the contactor coil to a 3-pin plug that you plugged into the plug adaptor.

If that can't be done in a way that meets the wiring regs then you can use a wireless wall switch, like a 5852R8F1AA. This is a 2-wire device, so it gets it's power by trickling a bit of current through the load. You may need to fit a bypass capacitor across the coil terminals of your contactor to avoid the contactor from trying to operate in the presence of this bleed current.

The plug adaptor is preferable because there is no current bleed through the load when the channel is off.

AirCon:
The system doesn't need to specifically have a C-Bus interface. It just needs to have some kind of generic external interface, like RS-232 or dry contacts. If you've got access to something like this, then at the very least you'll be able to switch it on and off. If not, then you're out of luck.

Garage door:
If you can confirm that these "screws" are intended for connection to an external dry contact switch (which you can probably test yourself) then they may be suitable. Is there an external controller somewhere?

 

Yes, you would probably let the smoke out.

To test it, just get a short piece of wire and abre the ends and then touch both screws at once. The door should open if its closed or close if its opened.

Assuming ch12 being used on a C-Bus relay
Run one screw to terminal 12A on the C-Bus relay unit and the other to 12B

Mick